Trump vs. the BBC, Pardoning Netanyahu? Sarkozy’s Prison Stint • FRANCE 24 English

Trump vs. the BBC, Pardoning Netanyahu? Sarkozy’s Prison Stint • FRANCE 24 English

[Music] Hello and welcome to the world this week with me Gavin Lee reflecting on the biggest news stories of the past seven days in depth with context and clarity with four distinguished world affairs journalists. In a week where President Trump has threatened to sue the BBC for $1 billion, an unprecedented lawsuit against a foreign media company after it emerged a panorama program misleadingly edited his speech. The Telegraph newspaper wrote the story of the manipulated clip. There was also a damning internal dossier of alleged BBC bias on issues of trans identity in the Gaza war. The doctorred speech dates back to 2021 when a violent mob stormed the US Congress on the day President Biden’s election win was being certified. The documentary broadcast just before last year’s election appeared to show Donald Trump, explicitly calling on supporters to head straight to the capital building and fight. The BBC said it was an error of judgment. So too, perhaps his decision to stay silent for days after the story emerged. Two of the broadcasters’s most senior staff resigned. And with reports of an internal battle over media management and intense political pressure, we’ll look at the implications for the BBC and on trust in journalism. Uh, and I think that the president um was deeply concerned by the editing, the purposeful and dishonest editing of his speech that was so clearly fake news. Been a week that seemed President Trump sent a formal letter to the Israeli president Isaac Herzog asking for a favor to grant a pardon to his ally, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who’s facing a longunning trial for alleged bribery and fraud. In a letter made public by Isaac Herzog’s office, President Trump wrote that while he respects the independence of the Israeli system, quote, “The case against Bby, who fought alongside me for a long time, including against Iran, is political, unjustified prosecution.” It’s a plea the president had already more than hinted at on a visit to Israel’s parliament last month. Mr. President, why don’t you give him a pardon? Give him a pardon. It’s also been a week of a series of firsts for Syria. The first president to be welcomed to the White House and a strange sight to see Ahmed Al- Shar, the former al-Qaeda fighter who had a $10 million UN bounty on his head, shooting the breeze with President Trump. This was no normal leaders meeting though. No fireside chat, no press questions allowed. A cautious welcome in from the cold. Al-Shar wants Washington to lift sanctions placed on the regime that he toppled and he got sanctions suspended in exchange for counterterrorism cooperation. The strangest moment though, the obligatory gift exchange. It’s the best fragrance. Come here. I have one here, sir. Okay. So, what we’ll do is just take that Joe. Put it in. And then the the other one is for your wife. How many This week also saw severe droughts in Iran. The release of the French Algerian writer Bolm Sansal having been detained for a year in Algeria finding himself at the center of diplomatic crisis and the government shutdown in the US coming to an end. Well joining me on the panel this week in the studio the journalist and the media consultant Philip Maro Chevrolet. Good evening to you Philillip. Professor of political communication science poe university in Paris. Co-author of the president a political fable. a satirical tale imagining a populist TV host becoming president and looking at the blurring of lines between entertainment and politics. Quite precient. Very good evening to you. Um let’s start with events. Here’s your book across the channel this week. What you’ve made of this apparent plot against the British Prime Minister Karmama. A plot concocted by party rivals that Kiesta’s own spin doctors seem to be putting out and briefing first on for the You mean about the BBC? No. Have you heard about the plot against Kiest Star in I know I’m I’m discovering it with you. I I don’t know anything about it. Well, this is this is a plot that’s also under the triage of information about the BBC uh this week. Possibly a good time to bury difficult news and it’s a nice time to bring in uh Henry Samuel as well, Paris correspondent for the Telegraph who will might explain to us as well. Great to have you with us tonight, Henry. I want to talk to you about a couple of things on the issue we were talking with Philip about a second ago. What’s your understanding of this uh the whole west streeting plot going on against the British prime minister? Um I’m really sorry to have to tell you this. Well, I may be the Telegraph Paris correspondent, but I’ve been so busy dealing with the Paris attacks anniversary that I haven’t been following them closely. Um, obviously I’m I’m fully aware that Kis Summer is under a hell of a lot of pressure um, you know, in in in the UK from within his own side and and and many many kind of talks of um, plots to to oust him. Um, that that I am aware of. Um, but uh, there’s a reason for your concentration this week uh, and that is you’ve been reflecting on the 10th anniversary of the batical attacks and you were there, I was there, you were that your offices were just uh, outside from the bat at the time. It’s a week of vigils, ceremonies, silence for the victims. You’ve done an incredibly powerful interview this week. Um, tell us about that. Yeah, it was actually um, so I was I was in Paris 10 years ago and um, obviously covered it my my my office was just 100 yards from the battle and by the way 100 yards from Charlie which was attacked uh, earlier earlier that year and obviously you just get your head down and and you you cover the news at the time. So um I never really revisited it myself until now and I found this anniversary extremely powerful and actually quite quite moving myself particularly when I met a bunch of um people who surv survived the attack um and the person that I that I one of the people I’m two of the people I met in fact were um taken hostage um and miraculously survived that hostage drama. 90 people were killed inside the debatical, most of them in the pit um when three terrorists opened fire, but a bunch 12 of them were kept hostage for two and a half hours um and told to keep a lookout. And um the one that I particularly interviewed was um Arno Simon Simona who um was the last hostage to be released. Um there was a final assault um by the Bayer, you know, the elite police when they realized there was no point trying to negotiate with these terrorists. Um and incredibly they they blew the door down, got rid of managed to get all the other the all of the other hostages out, but Alno was kept between the other the two remaining terrorists. And um so he couldn’t escape. And um when when the police moved in, he somehow managed to distance himself from the two terrorists. Both one of them blew himself up. The other one was shot and then he also blew up. And Almo explained to me that for about 10 minutes he thought that he was either dead or about to die because he was covered in blood until he worked out that it wasn’t his blood. um it was that of the terrorists and he’d he he’d come out of it unscathed. So that that in a sense and it sounds awful to say but he was one of the lucky ones. I mean, he he survived. Others um were killed or or maimed or um had terrible, you know, obviously post-traumatic stress. And I did speak to a bunch of others and their their reactions are very varied. And what’s very uplifting about Arno um and I met another hostage called Stefan uh is that they have formed a very strong bond between each other. They’re friends. They call themselves the page which is a put means mate in English and ut means hostage. So they were hostage mates and they they’ve really kept themselves um they’ve supported themselves over over all this time through thick and thin and you really sense that they are now turning a page and just there was a uh an acclaimed TV series about their friendship. It’s called De Vivon the living and um it’s about how they overcame it and it was based on these these hostages but part fictionalized um so it was a very moving experience to meet them. There were others who are finding it harder actually. Um I met another woman who was injured. She she was shot a couple of times um called Sophie Par. Uh she left Paris. She couldn’t cope living there anymore. um she got over the physical scars, but she’s still suffering. Every time you I hear this quite a lot. Um every time something happens, you know, some there’s a a sudden surprise noise, um she can be transported back to to the room. And so it it’s it’s very hard for her. And yet another person I met um said that in a way her her second life, her better life started that night. she survived and just realized how lucky she was to be alive. Um, Carpedium, etc. and and is now is is is now enjoying herself. So, you know, there’s there’s been a very very different uh reactions to it. But what I can say is that um you know, the whole of Paris was really scarred by this, not just those who were hurt. And that that’s I realized that myself being living in that area. Um, but you know, we’ve all come through and I think about the the difficulty, which we don’t often think about too much, of a journalist covering a something as viscerally a motive as that and coming back to a story. I remember exactly the week’s events, the other news events going on because there was a big summit if I remember 10 years ago in Malta at the time, an EU Africa summit about another drowning at sea. I was at the BBC at the time. The whole team had come off the plane 10 o’clock at night straight from Brussels where the team were based. We all went straight to the Batter Clan and for you having your offices so close. It’s one of those commemorations as events that you you kind of dread coming up but when they come there how was it for you to covering it as well as the interviews just being there as part of the commemorations? It’s just you know this sense that it could have happened to anyone you know um I was supposed to be going to one of those cafes that evening I didn’t go. Um that was chance every everyone could have been there. Lots of people I know could have been or were there. Um I I personally walked past the Batclan 15 minutes before um the attack and took myself a bike and and went home and then this happened and I could have just been caught up in it. So there’s that that there’s that terrible sense of um just the the the arbitrary nature of it. Um it’s very difficult to to kind of cope with. Um uh but what’s as I say is encouraging is that the spirit of in Paris and and in France has you know has has remained strong. Um, one of the people I interviewed was um, the head of uh, Laikip, which was uh, one of the worst hit, the worst hit in fact, cafe. 21 people died. Um, it’s a guy called Gregori. Um, and he lost his wife in the attack and he’s got an 18-year-old daughter, but he he refused to to give up and he has opened many other bars and restaurants in Paris. And that’s he said that’s that’s his act of resistance is just to carry on the Parisian way of life, the cafe culture. Um and so that’s all all extremely heartening. But yes, I have to admit it was far far harder than I expected to go back to it just because you know the the scars are still there for us all. Really good to have you with us tonight. It is a great very powerful read as well in the Telegraph. Henry Samuel, thank you. Let’s move from the studio. Let’s go to London. Let’s bring in Tom Standage, deputy editor at the Economist, editor its future gazing annual feature, the world ahead which has been released this week. It is great to see you, Tom. Crystal ball time. Tell us about what we should be thinking about. Some of the predictions for 2026 and worth noting your predictions for 2025 were particularly precient as well, particularly on tariffs. I think we all knew tariffs were going to come, but the thing that we got right was that we said that the initial impact of the tariffs was likely to be quite muted and that that has been the case. But looking forward to 2026, I think the uh the way to think about the coming year is that it’s a sort of pivot um between where we, you know, the way things have been in the past few years and where things are going to go next. And there’s an enormous amount of uncertainty in the world right now. Um we don’t know really what’s going on with geopolitics. Um we had a very clear paradigm from Joe Biden of you know autocracy versus democracy uh and a sort of new cold war between America and China and it’s really not clear what what Donald Trump sort of foreign policy is in many respects still. Uh then we’ve also got uncertainty around trade with the trade war. Uh we don’t know what’s happening you know the state of liberal democracy in Europe in particular um is in peril and you know we don’t know what’s going to happen there. Uh then we’ve got economic uncertainty. Will there be a bond market crisis? That’s something else that’s very close to uh what’s going on in France right now. And then what’s happening with technology, with AI? Is it going to take all of our jobs? Is it going to lead to a a recession? You know, we don’t know. Um and so I think the thing about 2026 is that we’re going to get answers to quite a lot of these questions and the answers that we get are going to really shape the next few years. And so I think you know what happens in the coming year in many ways will uh will shape uh the coming decade. So, so that’s the way I think think about this new year as we get closer to it. And your economist prediction cover, you can lose yourself in that for for hours working out all the the themes. One dominant theme I want to go back to though is tariffs. And why I say that because a thread that you linked to for 2026 we may not think about offhand. This is an interesting World Cup in the months ahead, isn’t there? There is. So the World Cup is being hosted by the US, Mexico, and Canada. And let’s just say they’re not getting on particularly well at the moment. Um they’re supposed to have this big free trade area, the USMCA, which was, you know, the Donald Trump uh update of the NAFTA uh treaty, and he comes back into office and immediately tears it up. And so they are in the process of trying to negotiate a new trade deal. They’re also um hosting this this enormous football tournament at the same time. And Donald Trump is saying things like he wants to take some matches away from dangerous cities, in other words, democratic cities. Um, and then the whole idea of the World Cup is that you welcome people to your country and and they come and watch the football and it’s a sort of, you know, an advert for for your country. And um, welcoming lots of foreigners to America is not really on brand for Donald Trump right now. And we had this very strange message from the administration which is basically everyone is welcome to come and watch the football, but then get out. So, um, it’s going to be quite it’s going to be very very interesting this whole thing on the pitch and off it. Tom, great to see you tonight. And these are very interesting predictions that I would recommend a read. Okay, let’s move from Tom. Let’s go to Italy. We welcome our next guest as well. Joining us from Rome, Kiara PTO, the host of the podcast, The Essential, a daily review of the news in Italy and worldwide. Kiara is former Paris correspondent and anchor at Sky Italia’s TG24. Pleasure to have you with us too tonight, Kiara. How are you? tell us about the essential and what you’ve been looking at this week. Well, it’s been a very intense week already. Boner everybody, it’s nice to be with you tonight. Um, it’s been a very intense week. We’ve been dealing a lot with the Bakran attacks as well because as you might remember, there was also an Italian victim in those attacks. So, every year it has been important for Italy to to take care of earplugs. might hear me not very well maybe. No, we can hear you perfectly. Carry on. We’re listening. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So, we’ve been covering what happened Paris very well this week and we’ve noticed I’ve noticed having lived in Paris for many years that this year the way we commemorated those attacks was very different from the past. So, we spent a lot of time in the essential as well analyzing the situation in France. we see uh an evident political struggle currently uh thinking about the pension reform and how it was frozen uh surprisingly from an external Italian point of view the way those muerations were almost dividing in the public opinion thinking about salah the quest for restorative justice and how the debate was influated by that in France we’ve been debating a lot about sui the fact that he was liberated from jail and the case was you know put in comparison a little bit judiciary um situation that was for sure very different from the one of but still um brought us back to the time where we had to confront with judiciary unpleasant situations being too close to politicians in their first row of importance at the same time suzi’s case being treated by the political opinion in France as a very divisive case. So we’ve been talking a lot about France for sure and also about PBC because um we have impression from Italy as well from the right perspective you know on the public uh TV system that there is maybe the deepest crisis we’ve ever seen in the mainstream medias and the BBC case really highlighted how important it is now more than ever for those public systems to find again a trust and a point of listening to or a first issue because let’s start as Kiara was saying, it is great to have you here with us tonight on the BBC. We’ll get straight into it as set up perfectly by Kiara. Sunday evening, 5 7 here in Paris, 5 6 in London. The press team for the BBC releasing a statement. Two of its most senior bosses resigning in the wake of a backlash over a misleading edit in a documentary about President Trump, one of the most trusted news organizations in the world, engulfed in a credibility crisis. Six days after a scoop by the Telegraph revealing elite internal memo by former BBC adviser Michael Prescott alleging systemic bias, institutional group think in coverage of Trump, the Israel Hamas war, particularly with BBC Arabic, and disproportionately favorable towards trans activism, suppressing uh gender critical voices. Critics claim the BBC is quote been captured by left-wing woke politics with an ideological bias fiercely contested by BBC journalists, including some who’ve put forward that this is a coup, a hostile takeover from conservative forces aiming to destroy the organization. This was Deborah Turnis, the outgoing BBC News CEO, as she was doorstep by reporters. I stepped down over the weekend because the buck stops with me. But I’d like to make one thing very clear. BBC News is not institutionally biased. That’s why it’s the world’s most trusted news provider. Well, two of the most powerful jobs in global news up for grabs, but whoever takes it on now will have to deal with the spectre of President Trump and a billion dollar lawsuit threat. President Trump gave the BBC a deadline Friday, this evening, to issue a full apology over the mistake by Thursday night. Came in the response of sorry, though it rejected demands for compensation. Philillip, let’s start with you. one of the most consequential scoops of the year I think for Henry’s organization that the Telegraph. Um the mistake itself, how do you see it and what you think is at the heart of this story? I think it’s a mistake. It shouldn’t have been done. We all agree on that, but I think it was indeed a concerted effort on the part of the conservative forces and calling them conservative is a bit, you know, it’s an it’s a way of understating it. And uh I think that Donald Trump it’s a very it’s a case of typical case of a double standard. The populist medias on the side of Trump they never apologize for being you know biased lying uh you know trying to sell anything to anyone and they never apologize but they do want us the democratic side the democratic medias to absolutely apologize for the even the slight minor the most minor mistake. Why? because they really want to destroy uh these medias. They don’t care about the truth anyway and we all know that by now especially with the Epstein finds problem that Trump has actually. So it’s a real democratic fight. I think they shouldn’t have resigned. They should have maybe apologized sooner. The BBC should have they should have said earlier very early on that there was a mistake. maybe you know fire someone because obviously someone was in charge of that but not the top of the BBC. It’s it’s sad. It’s unprecedented and it’s worry it worries me a lot because the you know far is not far from you know grabbing the prime minister seat and all of that is like Musk and Trump are really grabbing on the British political system in the most boring way really. It’s interesting listening to to Philip Tom. I note one thing particular headline the economist this week saying this. How the exasperating indispensable BBC must change. Why does this story matter, Tom? And what do you see happening next? Um well, I don’t think the lawsuit’s going to go anywhere because um this was something that was shown on eye player um in the in the UK. And if you know as people outside the UK know you you you know you basically can’t get to the BBC stuff outside the UK. Um so um just legally this is very flimsy. The other thing is that I mean obviously what the BBC did was wrong. But um when Trump has shaken down American news organizations, he’s had a lot more leverage over them. they’ve wanted to, you know, he’s threatened to take away their uh their licenses or he’s threatened to block mergers that they were trying to do with other companies and uh and so you know basically they’ve given him money to make him go away. That’s not going to happen with the BBC because he hasn’t got that kind of leverage over them and they have apologized and I think just under British law I don’t think he has a very good case here. Um so I don’t think that’s going anywhere but you know he just likes throwing big numbers around and you know this is this is theater. Um, as for the BBC itself, I think the really striking thing is that the the job of being director general of the BBC essentially seems to consist of um your job is to resign when the next scandal comes along and and it will come along. It doesn’t seem to be to actually run the BBC. What happened in this case, what happened in this case is that the memo that figured that you know all about all of these various mistakes has been sitting around since January. No one has done anything with it. It’s a completely erotic um organization. Um so our prescription for it is, you know, we we do think it’s indispensable, particularly on the news side. This is a a time in history where having accurate um reasonably unbiased news sources is more important than ever. And the BBC does great work, not just in Britain, but it also does reporting around the world. And uh this is not a good time for that to go away. If you look on Facebook at the most followed news pages in English, the top five are all Chinese sources that are reporting their version of the news in English. And the BBC is number six. So we really do need the BBC be doing what it does. So we think the thing to do is to split off the entertainment arm. Um because there’s lots of entertainment you can get from, you know, Netflix and YouTube and Disney Plus and whoever else you want to get it from. um and uh and actually have ringfenced funding for the news organization which really needs to be protected and if the BBC was less sprawling it would be much much easier to manage. Um so I think that would uh that would help with a lot of these problems. So bad news for the BBC question of trust public broadcasting notably interesting listening to Joe Rogan the most listened to podcast in the world talking about he saw it in his opinion it was there was some lying going on but he said this is supposed to be the arbiter of news essentially. So even the podcasters who talk about mainstream media acknowledging public broadcasting, this is where people go to in times of need. So there is a ripple effect to to worry about. Henry, bad news for the BBC, very good news for the Telegraph. Yeah, I mean I don’t you know I I I appreciate what you’re saying, but um you know it’s a rock it’s a rockolid scoop. Um and and I don’t think there was it it had to be called out. I mean, it was it was it was so it was pretty crude and when you when you look at the when you look at the the the edit and and and as you say, they’ve been sitting around all the time and it was it was it was from it was an somebody who was auditing the BBC, an external auditor who who who came up with this and he he brought it up many times. He kept saying, “Look, this isn’t good enough. We should we shouldn’t be doing this.” And no one listened to him. So, I think, you know, the Telegraph um did the BBC a service quite frankly of bringing this out. I’m I’m the last person to say that the BBC shouldn’t exist. Of course, it’s, you know, it’s an incredibly important voice in in in in the world. Um, but this kind of um sloppy uh behavior shouldn’t go on and it’s somebody needs to be accountable and they have fallen on their sword because it wasn’t just the the error it pointed out. It was about alleged systemic bias when it came to to Gaza to to trans uh the trans movement to not giving voice to to gender critical voices. Yes, there there were there were other strands to it of course. Um but the but the main main one was was was the Trump speech and um the latest the latest uh um reports from the the Telegraph they didn’t they that it wasn’t just on Panorama it was then done again um later in 2022. Um so uh the same report spliced um was was was used twice. You could once was perhaps you know a mistake twice not not so Kiara listening to to Henry there seems to be three distinct parts to this that there there’s that the accusations of BBC bias there’s the doctor edit itself and then there’s the the opportunism politically the pressures the opportunism from the the White House talking about actually go to a a Trump friendly media outlet as some see it GB news instead. What are you making of that? It’s for sure Donald Trump is campaigning against mainstream media and this is has this has started already with his first mandate. So no one is surprised about that. And of course what happened with the BBC is a win for the United States president in this moment. At the same time, I believe this is reason why the two main figures of the BBC did well to step down because ins like this that are crucial for the credibility of mainstream medias, it is important that someone can be held accountable for mistakes and it was indeed a mistake. We can debate over the importance of the mistake itself but it’s the principle that is extremely worrying. I mean we have taken for granted the credibility of mainstream medias for a long time now and with the new medias podcast and other medias appearing it is clear now especially through social media that people are not ready to trust the system so easily anymore. So any big mistake or small mistake made by a mainstream media like the BBC has to be paid pass me the term. Uh I’m thinking also about the Louisville Museum or the fact that the um that case the director of the didn’t step down after the mistake linked to the what happened to the Jews of France that was also a very bad sign because it means that the politics is not ready to take consider itself accountable for the mistakes that are done and somehow anything can happen and it will still remain in place. And I I link all this to a more broader uh lack of credibility of the system versus the anti-system that is going online mainly that’s voting for more for external parties and that is there even if sometimes legacy medias and legacy politicians wouldn’t like that part of the public to exist or tries to ignore it or to censor it. So more than ever, I believe the BBC scandal is serving us all and not just Donald Trump or whatever happens to this lawsuit. I don’t think it’s going to lead anywhere. But the the fact is that we all need to hear about the importance of the mainstream and mediatic media system and the importance of rebuilding it with the best intentions and values. Very interesting. On the issue of the era, we’re now waiting. The BBC are waiting for response to the response from President Trump. The BBC saying it apologizes, but there isn’t an issue of defamation. And Tom just pointed out this wasn’t shown in the US. The argument might be from prosecutors suggesting that they could have a VPN and therefore watch it. But well, let’s see this play out. The other issue, it didn’t affect him. He still won the the election. On the issue of trans rights, the BBC board says this. On the review of sex and gender identity, the BBC says its editorial guidelines and standards committee noted much of the coverage uh met the standards of impartiality and accuracy. And Tom, this takes us, I think, to a wider debate about the service of public service journalism, public broadcasting. Kiara talking about the alternatives, you know, chipping it in the wings. When it comes to crisis, people look for a bastion, somebody to trust. And often time and time again, polls show that is the BBC, that is public broadcasters. We’ve seen Trump effectively shutter. Uh meanwhile, American news broadcasting companies not quite closure, but diminishing them. The Voice of America, free uh Radio Europe, described as a as a cost-saving measure to curb left-wing bias. There is a bigger politics playing out here, Tom, isn’t there? There is. And the BBC has a global brand, and if you look at surveys of American consumers, the BBC ranks very highly as a trusted news organization. And so I think uh part of what’s going on here is that you know if Donald Trump intervenes in the midterm elections next year which is entirely possible um or you know does anything else where he doesn’t like it when people report what’s actually going on. Um this is a way to undermine trust of the BBC among American consumers. He can say it’s all fake news. They made that thing up. So this is why it’s such a terrible own goal for the BBC to undermine its own credibility in its in this way because as you say um in the event of you know national disasters things like the pandemic we were all reminded of the importance of national broadcasters uh to sort of bind the country together. uh and in fact you could argue that you know in the 19th century um it was the invention of of newspapers and then later on radio that sort of bound uh countries together and give us the modern conception of what a country is which is where kind of everyone um speaks exactly you know you get all the regional the dialect disappearing in Italy and things like this so um so yeah there is a sort of really important role that uh that public service and national broadcasters play here and um and it’s not just in their own countries it can in fact uh be be wider than that as well. And I think that’s why Trump is quite keen to undermine the credibility of the BBC because if he if he does bad things, they are going to be calling him out on it. We can hear you. Apparently, we have some sound issues, but we will proceed until we hear otherwise because here in Paris this week around 5 Wednesday evening, apparently we’re having technical problems. Let’s just double check with the the gallery that we can be heard. Can we be heard in the gallery or not? We will we will be back in a couple of minutes. We have um sound issues. We’ll be back in two. They observe. They contact us. They report, film, photograph. They are the voice of the voiceless. Your eyes in the far-flung reaches of the world. The observers, a network of 5,000 committed citizens working with France 24. One of our observers in Kivo. Amateur footage and testimonials checked by our journalists and broadcast weekly on the observers on France 24 and observers. 24.com. This week on Paris Desair, the many delights of Athens. Explore the capital’s cuisine with Dina Nicolo, the ambassador of Helenic Gastronomy. Then embark on a true culinary journey with Michelin starred chef Ano Bon. Pastry chef Stelios Palaros tells us about his revolutionary approach to Greek desserts. Valerie Fel takes you to Greece in Paris Desar on France 24. Bravo. [Music] Cure. [Music] The water tastes bad. This farmer in southern Vietnam has seen his rice yields drop steadily over the past 5 years. He lost 40% of his harvest last year alone. Salt water from the sea has now reached our fields, damaging the rice plants and their grains. It destroys the whole crop. The rice here is ruined. Look at this. It looks so weak. Rice patties contaminated by salt become infertile. And in this part of Vietnam, climate change is to blame. Sea levels are rising between 3 and 5 mm a year. As a result, salt water is seeping further in land and across the flat plains of the Meong Delta. The 18 to 20 million Vietnamese who live on or around the Meong Delta rely on it for their livelihoods. Seawater isn’t just threatening rice. Fish are at risk, too. A university in southern Vietnam is studying these changes in partnership with a French agricultural research institute. We will capture the fish um with with different types of salinities and after that the fish can be uh show the adaptations the changes in refinement uh with the different types of salinities. They combine laboratory research and field work. These scientists make regular boat trips to a small island where they’ve uncovered another problem. Rising water temperatures again driven by the climate crisis. and they’re worried as warmer water is leading to the extinction of certain species of fish. It’s the experiment uh for the stry catfish. Here they’re focusing on catfish, the delta’s most recognizable fish. In 2024, Vietnam produced around 1.6 million tons of catfish. That’s 42% of the global catch. For pangas the highest acceptable range of temperature is 35° centigrade. Last two years we have been monitoring uh pangasia pond water temperature in Vietnam and Cambodia. And what we have noticed that during the summer it goes up to 37° so 2° higher than the maximum tolerance level. [Music] In response to rising sea temperatures, many Delta residents are turning to a new form of aquaculture. It’s a sustainable alternative for farmers who can no longer grow rice. In Camal Province, vast aquaculture farms cover more than 300,000 hectares of land that was once used to grow rice. In these ponds, algae help cool the water while fish and shrimp are raised together. It’s a self- sustaining ecosystem in which each species supports the other. When shrimp produce waste, we recover it along with the water from their ponds which contains nutrients. We then pump that water into the fish tank. The algae continue to purify it and soon it becomes clear again. I don’t delay. This former rice farmer is in no doubt that aquaculture is the key to survival in the Meong Delta. Welcome back to the World This Week with me, Gavin Lee. We had some technical gremlins for the first time in the studio. Complete blackout in the gallery as well. But we’re back. We’re here and we march on because it was here in Paris this week around half five on Wednesday evening at the lower house of the French Parliament of the National Assembly. The results came through on the vote to suspend the country’s deeply controversial pension reform. A reform law aimed to reduce the country’s debt by raising retirement age from 62 to 64 was once viewed as a cornerstone of President Macarron’s agenda. The bold economic reformer who defied months of protest in 2023, forcing the law through parliament by invoking article 49.3, a last resort rule in the French constitution, essentially allowing the bill to bypass the lower parliament. And that was then. This is now five prime ministers have come and gone since Elizabeth Bourne triggered article 49.3 would have been six but the current prime minister Sebastian Lonu has got a second chance after resigning the first time that makes him count twice and that was out of a lack of other choices for president Macron that would enable his centrists to stay in power while no political block has an overall majority. Well, the vote on the pension reform isn’t a change of heart by the president. It is a strategic concession to secure the support of the socialist party to avoid the Macron government being toppled in a no confidence motion. 201 was the magic figure needed. The results 255 in favor of dropping the reforms 146 against. Good news for pensioners in France. Bad news for the French debt leading a budget still that hasn’t been passed. Philip, we’ll start with you. Has this shor up the government for now? I’d say it’s a historical moment when the parliament has defeated the president. It doesn’t happen very often. Uh but this time it happened. So this measure was really pushed really forcely pushed on the French public on the French electorate including the president’s own electorate. Nobody wanted this measure to pass. Nobody wanted this pension reform. It was unpopular to at least 80% of the population rejected it. Uh so in the end the parliament took over because the parliament was against the president and then in a way a normal democratic process was was reestablished meaning that the collective decision not to do it won against the will of one person to maintain it. Uh it’s unprecedented and frankly this is both a good and a bad thing. It’s a good thing because well the the parliament has reached kind of agreement and we are in a coalition kind of a system that could work. We could avoid the parliament to be dissolved and everything. And the other thing the negative thing is that well the president has still two years to go and we wonder how we will be able to achieve this mandate and it’s uh well we we’re entering troubled waters because as you know we are like the British we have a monarch except that ours has got a lot of power so we we’re not used to be defeated defeating him this way usually we cut the heads we defeating them in parliament is kind of a new thing under the recent uh um years. There’s a bit the similarity as well listening to to you Philip Henry in the speed of prime ministers that France is getting through not too dissimilar to the speed of prime minister Britain has been getting through but with this um decision has it prevented another exit at least for Sebastian Lornu before Christmas. Yeah, I mean I’m kind of quietly admirative of Sebastian Lorno. He was he was kind of written off as this, you know, sort of lackey who had no charisma and he he’s turned out to be probably the man for the job. I mean, it’s a terrible job to to do. Obviously, there’s no there’s no one’s got any kind of majority and and so and so they hobble on. Um so yeah, whether but I mean the situation’s I mean parliament now has the power. Um Philipe says that it’s a monarchy. I mean the fifth the fifth republic was is a is a parliament you know is a semi-presidential system but actually it’s supposed to you know repose on on the parliament and um it particularly when the the president doesn’t have a majority in parliament and that’s what’s happened now. So the the power is in the parliament the problem is the parliament is completely and latally divided and they’re finding it very difficult to make any headway and they’re just not used to it. They’re not used to having that power. they don’t know how to make coalitions and stuff and what we’re seeing I mean it is still there is no budget. Um the the debt as you said said is is is pretty is is appalling. Um the worst uh budget deficit in Europe last year and and currently heading towards a pretty big one this year. So they’re not out of the woods yet. But it’s still the the the the bottom line is can they afford to do this what they’re doing now? Can they really afford not to have a uh to to raise the retirement age? Um it obviously seen from abroad it does seem incredible but Macron’s played a terrible hand. Um you know he he forced through um a reform that wasn’t actually a presidential pledge um in 2022 and he did so you know by by avoiding any kind of parliamentary debate. So it it was it was very interestingly today there’s been a poll out um by ELAB suggesting that 68 of the percent of the French think that they should be you know that they’re going to have to go back and reform you know the pension system. They they know it’s it can’t go on like this is this issue they know something has to be done but no one wants to really take the bull by the horns and do do some of the the painful stuff that’s going to have to be done. you know, we this the system cannot pay for itself and and by by freezing the the the the pension system here. It’s going to cost I think it’s something like 400 billion next year and 400 million and 1.8 billion the following year. I mean we and they can’t France can’t afford that. No, I’ve seen quotes 3 to 400 million already. Um Kiara listening to to Henry talking about this President Macron as well to think about in this this was kind of legacy legislation, wasn’t it? at least no more for now. And in the autumn, we are in the autumn of his presidency too, aren’t we? Um, yeah. I mean, I consider that what’s happening in France with a pension reform being suspended is the worst news for all French people because I mean it’s clearly not a measure that France can afford. Let’s continue what we were saying. It’s clearly something that is not going to be supported in the future. I mean, it’s a an increasingly aging population. what we have to deal with all over Europe. So clearly going retiring so early will not be so sustainable anymore in the future. But being France through an unprecedented political crisis somehow changing governments every six months, no one will be really held accountable for this mistake apart from Macron that he’s already at the lowest point of his presidency. And it’s clear by the mere fact that this pension that represented this second mandate has been suspended and it was possible because no one has the power I believe in this moment. I mean neither the parliament neither the president the real problem is that no one is in charge um for real. So the re revision and the modification of the peak uh republic of fun is probably necessary and we know it today more than ever. when uh will it be 2027? I don’t think so. I believe that the elements are there for something to change before then even if really doesn’t allow that. To your point, it’s worth saying this. Look at the polls right now. They are not flattering. This is rare. I mean, they rarely offer leaders in power particularly, but Lef Figuro’s latest poll late October for President Mron gives him an 11% approval. Phillip, this is the lowest approval rating for President Mron in 70 years of polling French presidents. Yeah, I know it’s slow. It’s it’s always like that in the end of a mandate. This this president has is at the end of two mandates actually 10 years. We are at eight years out of 10. So it’s it’s normal that this would be low in in the polls anyway. Even if he had done popular things in the past, he would be unpopular and he has been through so many crisis. This president will be remembered as the president of crisis. We had every kind of a crisis. We had the COVID, we had the war in Ukraine and it was very bad at some. The COVID was not really well handled. Uh but it was very is very good at Ukraine at in handling the Ukraine crisis in the end. So um we need to you know let it rest and anyway will be gone soon. So what worries me is the next president and I hope he will be you know a moderate democratic guy wearing wearing tweet jackets. I would rather have that than a orange painted faced guy with ludicrous ideas and by the way a huge huge deficit. Be careful what you wish for. We are uh what comes next mind you Tom across the channel where you are Kia Star facing strikingly similar figures to Macrons 16 months after his landslide victory. The pollster opinion shows him with a 17% approval rating 62% disapproval. 56% of Brits calling for his resignation. This is a new low in modern polling history. Jinx with the French here. The neck andneck again only for the prize that no one wants. Tom. Yeah, this is true. We have got through a lot of prime ministers lately and um uh and we have a very unpopular um uh you know national leader right now just as you do in France. The other thing we have in common is these enormous deficits. Um and I just can’t believe what I’m seeing. Um, France has an incredibly low retirement age and it tried to raise it by a little bit and it does this every few years and it always gets undone and France has a deficit of 5.5% of GDP. This this is a country that is walking towards a bond market crisis and uh and Bardella would be even worse. His plan to close the deficit is basically to ask the ECB to print money. Of course, this is unpopular. Everybody votes for free money for themselves. Nobody wants to have to work for longer. honestly. But just look at what other the retirement age is 66 in Britain. It goes up to 67 next year and then it goes up to 68 a few years later. There are several countries in Europe uh Denmark, the Netherlands, Greece where they did the sensible thing and they linked the pension age to life expectancy because it’s even more unacceptable to retire at 62 if you’re going to live to be 100, which an awful lot of people are. So I just don’t know what you’re all smoking. you’re all talking about how you know what the political implications are and who has sovereignty and this is this is an economic disaster that is about to happen and it’s getting worse and worse and worse. Um I mean and it’s particularly bad in Britain and France. Uh the other country’s got a massive deficit that’s uh also at risk of a bond market crisis but is a bit different is the US and that will be because of politicization of the Fed potentially next year. So we’ll see. But yeah, we one of our predictions for for 2026 is the you know the risk of a bond market crisis is growing and um America, France and Britain are the places to watch where this might go wrong and it would not be pretty because it would mean the bond markets would impose austerity on the governments of Britain and France. That is the where that is where this Tom these these these conversations your discourse is reminiscent of what we’re hearing in the National Assembly and yet it doesn’t break the mold and to which Philipe you were choing at the bit to to come in there. What did you want to say? Yeah, I think that we have the u we are still in the EU. That’s difference between us. Maybe we are a lot more, you know, relaxed because we are in a collective, you know, way of handling the deficits. That’s one point. The the uh the the top executives in the French government, they plan on a 4.6 deficit next year and they hope to be staying in that uh uh neighborhood. I don’t know how to translate that probably. And they they think that if it lasts for two or three years that’s okay. And if it lasts for more and if it goes uh w if the deficit is larger then the uh European central bank will have to intervene and will be into trouble like you know uh but that’s not the most likely scenario. They’re quite relaxed actually nowaday even with this pension reform debate. they are not really stressed because they think they are too big to fail and they there are there are guidelines under the EU that protect us and also uh well it’s we have a deficit for sure but we had deficits in the past and we will survive too big to fail so said Aussie Mandias as well Philip I’m not saying it’s good I’m just saying it’s being said well time perhaps this is something that Kiara mentioned a short while ago perhaps allows for a cozier rosier perspective doing time albeit briefly has uh been former president Nicola Sarosi 13 years since his presidency. His approval rating peaked at 65% and fell to around 20 when he was in office. Despite uh that and since then despite proclaiming his innocence, he’s been convicted in two major criminal cases for illegal election campaign financing and for conspiring to fund his seven campaign and then later on a campaign uh using the money from the late Libyan dictator Myar Gaddafi. After three weeks in prison, a first for a former French president, he’s been released ahead of an appeal trial to be held next year. He was allowed to take three books to prison with him. Thematically appropriate perhaps, the two volumes of The Count of Monte Cristo, the Alexander Dumar tale of a man falsely accused of treason who escapes to exact revenge on his betrayers and a biography of Jesus Christ selected according to his team for reflection. And he was reportedly using the time to write his own book on faith and justice. the response for Parisians who spotted him in in a restaurant shortly after his released. Let’s take a look. [Applause] Hri, I’m going to ask which uh page the bookmarks were found in of those three novels. But I will ask you what you made of the time served by President Sarosi and how he played the prison PR around it. Yeah, I mean I’m I’m pretty I mean I think I’m still kind of confused about the fact that he was he went to prison and because it it’s it is a strange system. Obviously, he was going to appeal. Um he’s not a threat to to public security, but the the judge cons ruled that, you know, the the seriousness of the crime was sufficient that they were just applying the law, which is that um you go to prison while waiting for the appeal. But, you know, what’s happened is it went to to another judge and the judge ruled that actually no, he you know, he he could come out. So, that does make you question should he have been in there in the first place? Um but it is an incredible site. It’s an incredible I mean not not since Marshall Pan has has has a you know French leader been been put to jail. Uh and and you know so it it’s it’s it’s it is a but when you look it’s obvious he’s been he’s been convicted not once not twice but three times. So it’s difficult to to start saying that you know all the judges are against him and the whole things and that’s another thing. I mean there is there is this it is a worrying turn I feel in in France increasing the politicians are accusing the you the magister of being politically motivated. Yeah, it’s a populist phase obviously and the president the former president Sar because he tried to exploit that in a way in order to you know build kind of a defense uh for the sake of the public opinion mainly because the fight was lost in the court anyway and I don’t know it’s a good thing that we were able to put a president in jail like Brazil did with Bolsaro for instance BSaro did something way worse than Sarosi but still it’s a good thing democratically but for three weeks. It raises questions. Obviously, it helps his defense, but also it could give to the people a feeling that, you know, he’s a little bit that we we can convict the president, but still is a bit above the low, and that’s not a good thing. So, I’ve got mixed feelings about all that. Kiara Philip talked about the the image of him, and this is post prison release polling from Alab, the pollster. 25% of the French have a good image of him. So that is better than Macron even with the prison sentence and it is on the rise up from two points from October. Polling of right-leaning conservative circles has it at 43% favorable. Can we read anything into that? A return to politics perhaps. Kiara I don’t think we can go to that extent of the return of to politics. I think is um the fact that it was sent to jail is actually the mark of an end the end of a certain right traditional right in France the old right that has come to an end they wanted to make a symbol of him uh symbol of for sure the fact that anyone any politician is the same in front of the law and has to go in jail if he’s condemned they marked uh his uh his time spent in jail as a symbol of functioning system. I’m also puzzled by what happened because on the contrary, I think this case became a boomerang for the magistrates and for the justice justice system in France, ending again in a very confusing debate. Of course, Sarosi portrays himself as a victim of a bad justice and a biased justice system. And it’s easy and it’s easy for him to say that because of course being condemned um he deserves to pay for that but at the same time how many people that are not politicians would have been sent to jail for the same condemnation probably no one because he was a symbol someone else wouldn’t wouldn’t have been a symbol so I don’t think he’s going to be willing to go back into presidential race or primary political role but at the same time I think he will manage in the end to use it on his own behalf against the will of the magistrates. Well, Tom Nicholas Sakosi so far described it as grueling. I just wonder given that the information we’re getting from his uh press team about this writing inside prison, are we looking at a at a top uh Christmas bestsellers list? Is that the aim right now? Jordan Bardella having released his second book, Tom. He sits below asterisk in the bestsellers list. I just wonder whether we are going to be hearing of Saros’s 21 days inside. He has a writing retreat and uh I I think he wouldn’t be the first person who would who would have done that and uh uh you know there’s a history of um political memoirs where people kind of make them up in retrospect. So who knows what he might claim to have written uh in prison. I think the main thing is that you know the law should apply to everybody. uh there was a period in French history where politicians did seem to be above the law uh and the you know cases would be dropped or never come to trial or they’d get very very lenient sentences. So um you could argue about whether or not this rule that you know people still have to go to jail while they’re appealing is a fair one or not and that’s fair enough. But I think um you know essentially applying the same laws to everyone is a is a good principle and um and politicians should not be seen to be above the law. Politicians should not be seen to be above the law. It takes us perfectly to our final subject, which is Tel Aviv, a month on from President Trump’s so-called victory lab after getting Hamas in Israel to agree to a ceasefire. In an aside towards the end of that Knesset speech last month, he spoke of the Israeli prime minister being one of the greatest wartime leaders, pointing out to the country’s president, Ida Isaac Herzog. I have an idea, he said to Herzog. Why don’t you give Benjamin Netanyahu a pardon? I like him, he said. Cigar, champagne. Who the hell cares about it? He said with a smile and was met with a standing ovation by Netanyahu supporters. Well, the cigars and champagne refer to the luxury gift allegedly accepted by Mr. Netanyahu and his wife Sarah worth between $195 and $330,000. Bribes for political favors say the prosecution denied by the prime minister, who says they were from close friends and states he hates champagne and rarely finishes cigars due to interruptions. Well, the trial ongoing since 2020 has featured over 140 witnesses expected to continue until 2027. And this week, the Israeli president confirmed he has in writing a request from President Trump calling the corruption case against his ally a politically unjustified prosecution. Mr. Herzog has declined to say how he responded in the request for a pardon, but said anyone seeking it must seek a formal in-person request. Phillip, is this a fatal comple? How do you see this going? Uh I think we are very very far from the original you know isolationist Woodro Wilsonian positions that Trump supposedly was willing to have. So we are not at all like that. He’s different. He’s intervening a lot in other countries. We saw that in England. We see that in Israel obviously and he does that without any you know uh re really frankly and really heavily loudly like uh like he was really he were really an Israeli in the Israelian debate which is kind of strange in a way and uh of course for him you know taking bribes is not something very big and obviously champagne and you know it’s far away from his own you know um he’s been accused Trump of you know collecting money from unknown donors through cryptos. So, so for him, I guess getting some free champagne is like, you know, a walk in the park. So, but uh obviously it diminishes the the legitimacy of the legal system in Israel at a time where it needs direly to be, you know, getting back to a normal kind of a system that could enable to get out of the crisis and maybe to have real peace agreements and not this kind of ceasefire that allows Hamas to be, you know, reestablished at the main force. I mean, it’s not it doesn’t do any long-term politics or long-term planning. Uh Trump does give the feeling that what he wants is his allies, friends and so forth to be protected from everything, shielded from the law, shielded from every consequences that the political could have. And that’s obviously a ludicrous ludicrous thing to do. But that’s how that how that’s how multilateralism goes these days. Multilateralism goes that way these days. Kior the point raised by the opposition leader Yay Lapid is it’s raised obvious questions about American influence about Israeli policies and Americans influence of it as Philip talked about but in the midst of a series right now of visits by US officials to Israel since the truce the Israeli media calling these uh visits babysitting or babysitters you’re keeping up this intense diplomacy there is another aspect to this Kior which is I’ve heard from another of US official sources saying that by dropping this case any expectation that Netanyahu from critics might want to extend the war so he doesn’t have to face them. Well, that disappears. What do you make of that? I believe that Netanyahu is obviously babysitted by Donald Trump in this moment. So, the fact that he might be helped in his judiciary process by the US president is only a collateral consequence of the fact that the states are imposing their strategical vision over Middle East on Israel as well. whether Israel and Netanyahu agree with it or not. I mean, in this moment, it’s not so important to Trump whether Netanyahu is strong in his political government, if his allies are supporting him and supporting the US role or not. What’s important to Donald Trump is that he can impose his vision and the American vision as a consequence over the Middle East. We saw that al-Sharad is the White House. It is a cynical uh maybe the most cynical act of this presidency at the same time showing once again how Donald Trump can if you want do basically anything in the Middle East because he managed to to somehow sign this truth that is in a way or in another uh at least on the surface resisting both just listening to Cara’s points just a final thought from both you Henry and and Tom as well. Closing thoughts on this. I just wonder if it’s a clever move, Henry, from President Herzog. He’s asked for a formal request come from either Netanyahu or his lawyers or his family. And I’m minded to think about comparisons to Nicolas Sosi who he spoke about when on trial in France. There was some on the right saying that he should ask for a pardon. And he said, quote, “I won’t seek it. I’m determined, quote, to prove my innocence.” Yes. Um well, I think he’s right. I mean, you know that got to hand it to him. I mean, it’s far better to prove your innocence in a in a He’s allowed to appeal. He’s appealing and he believes that he he’s going to be found found innocent. So, I can all I can only all I can say is all credit to him. The other thing is I I I h I highly doubt that that Mong would would would give him a pardon because he would probably just throw the ball back in his court and say, “Well, I think you should appeal.” Um so, and and you know, we’re talking about um Herzogen and Netanyahu. I mean, you do wonder if if what Trump has done has actually been counterproductive um for for Netanyahu um because clearly the the the justice system will will now want to prove that it is completely and utterly impartial. Uh um so it may not be helping Netanyah’s cause. Tom helping himself. It’s a very very common pattern for Donald Trump to say that uh the judiciary is corrupt and it goes after people like Bolsinaro uh and or like Netanyahu. They’ll say this is all a witch hunt. Um because that means that when he says that attacks on him are a witch hunt. He’s saying it’s part of a wider pattern. Uh he also likes to pardon people who have done things that he is accused of. Um and uh and he also likes to say that things he is accused of don’t really matter like like receiving gifts. Um and he’s been given all sorts of things. not something made of gold uh over the years. So um so this is very very much Donald Trump um sort of saying things that that help him in the future uh and reinforce his narratives um and I would I would see it through that lens. Really good all of you tonight. Tom, thank you. Thank you to all the panelists insight and clarity. Thank you to Philip Maro Chevrolet journalist professor, political communication expert, MCBGC consultancy. Henry Samuel Paris correspondent at the Telegraph. Thank you to you as well in a big scoop week for the Telegraph. Thank you London. Tom Standage, deputy editor at The Economist, editor of the annual world ahead feature just out and well worth a read. Thank you Tom and Kiara Pato in Rome, the host of the Essentials podcast by Will Media. Thank you to Kiara and thank you for watching. We will leave you with one of the week’s viral moments capturing the much anticipated and rapturously received return of Tom Felson as Draco Malfoy in his Broadway debut in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child reprising the role the only original cast member to do so he first played a quarter of a century ago. This was the reaction and an admirally stoic response. Mischief managed. We’ll see you in seven days for the world next week. Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] I need a favor.

This week, President Trump has threatened to sue the BBC for one billion dollars after it emerged its Panorama programme misleadingly edited his speech. The US President also sent a formal letter to Israeli President Isaac Herzog, asking for a pardon for his ally the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who’s facing a long running trial for alleged bribery and fraud. And after three weeks in prison, Nicolas Sarkozy has been released ahead of an appeal trial to be held next year.
#BBC #Netanyahu #Sarkozy

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