As the number of immigrants from third countries is rapidly growing in Vilnius, the mayor of the capital Valdas Benkunskas insists that measures must be taken. According to the head of the municipality, the situation is currently under control, but without taking any action, it may become difficult to control the processes in the long run.
“The vast majority of immigrants primarily stay in Vilnius, because it is the economic center, the highest salaries, the most job offers, etc. So if I, as the mayor of Vilnius, do not show that initiative to the government, we may spend several more years in the same dormant conditions, and then the processes may already be difficult to influence, because now we count 10 percent in the city of Vilnius. foreigners (…). Research by scientists shows that 10 percent. is a turning point when the state has to get its act together, because if they let it go, that’s it – ghettos are forming,” he said in the politika.lt podcast. V. Benkunskas.
“I don’t want to scare or scare, because we haven’t lost anything yet, but if we continue to sleep and do nothing for a few years, the situation could change significantly and very quickly. Therefore, the time to act is now,” he emphasized.
– How do Vilnius residents see the overall situation? You conducted a survey, can you comment on the results?
– We deliberately wanted to ask the people of Vilnius a few things. First, how they assess the current situation, when we have many immigrants. Of course, Russian speakers or those who came from the former post-Soviet space with Russians are dominant, but we also have migrants from other countries – Africa, Central Asia.
– Yes, 80 thousand non-citizens of the Republic of Lithuania live in Vilnius. 20 thousand of them are citizens of the European Union, but almost 50 thousand are people who mostly speak Russian on the streets.
– Yes, and this is almost three times more than we had in 2021. Therefore, the impression that there are more Russian speakers in the city of Vilnius is very natural. Why this was done or on what grounds those people came, of course, there are also important questions here, but it is still focused on the past.
Returning to that survey, we asked Vilnius residents whether they are satisfied with the current legal regulation, meaning that if we do not change anything, it is likely that these flows will continue to grow and in a few years these numbers may be higher. Then the question arises about their integration, primarily through the language. Therefore, we deliberately asked questions: if these people who have arrived began to speak at least some Lithuanian, to converse in Lithuanian, would that help them in their assessment, integration, etc. Those answers are very clear. In summary, we can say that the current situation is assessed poorly. The score they write for the current regulation is 3,6. The score they would like, in terms of strictness, is 8. That is more than double.
Where is the problem with Russian speakers? I will say it briefly – there is no pressure on them to learn Lithuanian, because they communicate perfectly, receive services in Russian, communicate anywhere – whether in the private or public sector, we can speak Russian in Vilnius. So let’s imagine, if a Lithuanian goes to some African republic, then whether he wants to or not, he has to learn the basics in order to communicate. If there are no opportunities to communicate in English there, the environment forces you to learn that language. We don’t have that in Vilnius or Lithuania.
The second thing is the legal requirements. What do you have to do to be here? We don’t have a requirement to learn Lithuanian at least at the A2 level. We only have it when we are talking about obtaining a permanent residence permit. And the regulations for temporary permits now work in such a way that basically you get a 3-year permit, it expires, you come and under the same conditions you extend it once, a second time, and so using temporary permits and without acquiring any obligations to the state, you can live for 20 years.
– As you mentioned, this problem is most clearly visible in Vilnius. 120 percent of the European economic average is in Vilnius alone. So you are proposing to pass a Lithuanian language exam when extending a temporary residence permit for the first time?
– We understand that our life has improved a lot. The state has developed, the Vilnius region has become an economic center. So naturally, if someone used to run across the border, run to Germany or somewhere in Western Europe, now they stay here. This is our reality. And then the question arises, how do we deal with this? This is the introduction of the Lithuanian language, if you want to stay in Lithuania for a longer period of time, have goals to settle here, is a new reality that we, as a state, must regulate. We understand that due to our development, economic immigrants must come here, because no one wants to work in that lower-paid job anymore. We lack labor. So, migration is necessary. Then, if a person comes here not just to stay for 2-3 years and earn money and leave, if he wants to stay longer, then the state must come and say: “Here are our rules. Sir, if you want to stay here, the requirements are as follows.”
– This is legal, no one would object to it.
– Yes. And today in Europe there are both good and bad examples very close to us. For example, Scandinavia. There are two neighbors: Sweden and Denmark.
– In Copenhagen – one way, in Stockholm – another.
– Yes. Stockholm, which was famous for its extraordinary openness, cleanliness, and order, has now become one of the most dangerous cities in Europe.
– Yes, there are shootings at night, street races, etc.
– There are places where even police are already afraid to step. Only the army with armored vehicles can go. And in Copenhagen – the opposite, because the Danish government 16 years ago resolutely said how it would regulate immigration policy. They got it right – immigration is happening, people are brought in, they are allowed in, but it is very clearly, consistently declared how those migrants must behave, what duties they must perform. This is the path I propose, because the vast majority of immigrants first stay in Vilnius, because it is the economic center, the highest salaries, the most job offers, etc.
So if I, as the mayor of Vilnius, do not show that initiative to the Government, we can spend several more years in the same dormant conditions, and then the processes can already be difficult to influence, because now we count 10 percent of foreigners in the city of Vilnius. In the entire European Union, including Vilnius, there are about 100 thousand of them, since 700 thousand residents live in Vilnius, if we count not only declared ones, then migrants make up 10–12 percent. Scientific research shows that 10 percent is a turning point when the state has to get its act together, because if they let it go, that’s it – ghettos are formed.
Of course, there is another very important point – the European Union directive, which directly applies to every state, that an immigrant who has lived here for 3 years acquires the right to bring his family – the right to reunification. For example, Central Asians, who here, as they often say, work as porters or food delivery people, often have families with, say, 7-8 children. There are also Muslim traditions that, for example, do not allow women to work. All this raises social issues. I do not want to scare or scare, because we have not lost anything yet, but if we continue to sleep and do nothing for several years, the situation may change significantly and very quickly. Therefore, the time to act is now.
– It is true that we cannot change the right to family reunification. But by introducing a language exam before exercising the right to reunification, before extending the permit, we would change something in the state.
– The state can take two legal actions, without violating European directives (…). So after the first 3-year period, if a person wants to stay here, we can set very clear rules – social integration, socio-cultural integration, explaining our history, our traditions, where there are red lines, especially for people who profess religions that are not dominant in Lithuania, and finally, language – the most important element. So after 3 years, let’s say, you want to extend, you want to stay longer – please, go through all this.
– For example, pass an abbreviated Lithuanian history exam and an A2 level Lithuanian language exam?
– At least A2, when you can converse in everyday language, know essential words, can construct sentences, etc. The second important thing, when it comes to the right to family reunification – the 3-year period for migrants living here, which is enough for this right to come into force, is slowly approaching. For example, Laurynas Kasčiūnas has proposed a bill that will not violate the European directive, i.e. family members who want to be reunited with those here must arrive with an A2 level of Lithuanian.
– But it looks a bit like iron clogs, doesn’t it?
– Here you can see. I don’t think these are unwearable clogs, because A2 is a base of bases. I understand that when people fled the war to America in the 1940s, it was one situation. Now there are distance courses. All that is needed here is effort. If the state provides rules, if you want to join, then please learn the base.
– However, there is a problem that there is no place to study. How will you solve this?
– Yes, this reality hit us when we saw that we could raise all sorts of requirements, but… From January 1st, a law came into force that if you want to work in the service sector, you must know Lithuanian at the A2 level, but then we saw that there was no one to teach. There is no system, no testing system. So we are starting things from scratch, but we have already signed a contract and the first courses, the first groups are taking place together with the Pedagogical Institute of Vytautas Magnus University (VMU). These courses are free of charge, they are financed by European Union funds. By the end of the year, we will accept several thousand people whom we will be able to train in this way. Next, in solving the problem of teachers, we interviewed teachers in Vilnius who would be interested in teaching Lithuanian to foreigners.
– Would the city pay them extra?
– No, not quite like that. We provide premises, we provide space, if you need some other technical equipment – please, but the courses will not be free of charge. This is an individual matter to agree with students or employers. For example, if employers want to take care of their employees’ language skills, they can agree with the teacher. We do not get into the commercial part, the remuneration part with teachers, but we directly increase the availability of learning opportunities.
– So what will you spend that 4,3 million on if you don’t pay teachers’ salaries?
– This is the money allocated mainly from the European Union, where in addition to language, there are also social integration issues and the like. And that is distributed over a three-year period, which is 1,5 million per year. This money is not large, and if there is a need, if we see that everything is going smoothly, we will increase it, because here, apparently, there is a common interest in making it work.
– So you are suggesting that employers invest in employees so that they learn the Lithuanian language?
– Exactly. There are situations where, after the last Belarusian pseudo-elections, many high-tech business specialists and businesses themselves moved to Vilnius, especially in the gaming industry. These people are mainly Russian-speaking, but they are high-value-added workers who, after picking up a computer, decide to leave for, for example, Dubai, in 5 minutes. There must be a separate approach to such high-value-creating specialists and talents, because that is exactly what we are trying to attract, so it is important not to lump everything together.
Returning to what the city is doing, we are also investing and creating digital distance learning courses that even more people can join. We are trying to create that learning ecosystem practically from scratch. And the main thing, which we have already mentioned, is the right of association. If people are required to come to Lithuania already knowing some Lithuanian, it must be a convenient tool. There are world language learning apps, so we are initiating a Lithuanian language model in them.
– And now it’s not?
– Not now, because the number of people using our language is not a commercially decisive factor for doing so.
– In other words, if someone financially contributed to solving the financial issue of one or another popular app, could that Lithuanian language appear? Despite the fact that there would be no market demand.
– Exactly.
– Returning to foreigners in Vilnius, one gets the impression that there are significantly more than 10 percent of them.
– I would like to emphasize that it is not the case that the Russian language has appeared recently. A large part of the population of Vilnius has always been Russian-speaking. We have national communities. That turning point in the city of Vilnius, when the Lithuanian language began to overtake the Polish and Russian languages, occurred only in 1989. Of course, older people say that now “maybe we are gradually returning to the Soviet era.”
– Is the amount of Russian language as in Soviet times?
– Yes. After the war, when Lithuania regained Vilnius, there were only a few percent of Lithuanian speakers here. That’s all happened over the last century. But if we take the last decade, it’s clear that the impression of the Russian language on the streets, in public spaces, wherever you go, has significantly increased. And where did we start – there are 3 times more immigrants who use this language.
– It is likely that this angers people because we have been trying to get rid of the Slavic label for a long time. Not only are our social habits different from theirs, but so is our communication.
– The Slavic mentality is familiar to us. We know what all this means in a general sense. That is why, after regaining independence, we are trying to emphasize that we are different, although for many years they tried to assimilate us, tried to merge us, but we resisted and we explain to everyone that we are different. This is that cultural difference, despite all the occupations and attempts to make us a single unit, it exists. That is why when we talk about integration, it is not just a question of language, which is what I mentioned. It is much more, emphasizing both our history and cultural diversity, etc. That is why we have that project with the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labor, we are continuing it and it also needs attention. This topic should be in the priorities of the endless state policy, so, I will mention it once again, the example of Denmark: you need to invest in everything, because if you leave it to chance, the processes will become uncontrollable.
– You asked the people of Vilnius: “If the current immigration policy in Lithuania does not change and remains similar to the current one, it would increase the country’s security risks in the future. Do you agree or disagree? I don’t know, I have no opinion.” 64 percent of Vilnius residents believe that if the migration policy does not change, security challenges will arise in the future. This seems like a serious indication.
– Yes, that’s why I would really like the central government to see these numbers. Of course, this is a survey of Vilnius residents, but I think if we did a survey of all of Lithuania, the numbers would be very similar. Maybe even higher, knowing that there are many tolerant people living in Vilnius.
– But you can’t help but see the transformation that’s been happening lately, right?
– Yes, and security, you don’t have to look very far here either… Germans soldiers, who are now coming and settling in Vilnius, their family members and the officers themselves emphasize one thing: “We feel safe here, which we no longer have in some German cities.” This is security or how you feel in your own country, in your own city, as a consequence of migration policy or as a result of the policy being implemented. So far, everyone emphasizes the cleanliness and safety of Vilnius. This seems self-evident to us, but other capitals and cities have already lost it. About six months ago, we met with the mayor of Berlin, he does not know our regulations – how much legislative powers the city has, how much the national government has, because everything works a little differently in Germany, but he wished and suggested that we follow this topic very closely, because Germany is probably the best example, when the chancellor was there, they said: “Willkommen to all”, – and now there are many social problems there, unemployment, social benefits, etc.
Therefore, this is an issue for all of Lithuania, and I really hope that the national government will listen and raise this issue as a priority, because, to be honest, recently the Minister of Internal Affairs, whose competence is this issue, said that we do not plan to change anything yet. Yes, we are aware of individual initiatives from members of the Seimas, we have heard proposals from the presidency, and we also hear from businesses, which are also watching what is happening here, because it is relevant to them for their direct employees, but it seems to me that it is time for everyone to sit down at the table and clarify which path we are taking.
– I think that language proficiency or minimal language proficiency would not be an obstacle for employers when obtaining a new temporary residence permit in Lithuania after 3 years.
– We have heard different opinions. We understand that employers would also have to invest in their employees if they want to retain them, so there may be various things. We can talk about it, we need a discussion, because the talent segment is probably separate. There may be a Swiss who is not a member of the European Union, Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, but the specialist resides in Vilnius, works as a manager of some company.
– Isn’t that so hard to do? Especially when we’re talking about IT or financial specialists.
– What is most interesting, they say, is that they are doing this. I think that we would definitely find an agreement with business and respond to their expectations and their concerns. Therefore, we must not look at the short term, what will be in our financial profit and loss statement next spring, but we must look as a state at what awaits us in a decade, knowing the demographic challenges, seeing the birth rate and mortality rate. These things must be put on the table. Of course, language is not a magic bullet, where if you force or tell them to learn the language, you will unlock all the problematic doors. But this is the basis from which we need to start, because in Germany itself there are many Turks who know German, but social problems still exist there. This is a very complex issue, but everything has to start from somewhere.
– And how is the mandatory knowledge of Lithuanian for service sector employees, which came into effect at the beginning of this year, being implemented?
– Yes, it has been in effect since January 1 of this year. The language inspectorate is out there trying to catch you. If they catch you, they issue you an administrative fine, of course. But employers are simply firing people – the two or three-year period ends, when a person must already know the Lithuanian language after arrival and use it when providing services, and then on the last day they fire them and hire a new one. This is natural, because when we talk about how that language had to be learned, the answers are that there was no way. There were no tools in the state. The state had set the requirement, but no one had taken care of how to achieve it, how to get to it.
– What if you appeal to those in power and nothing happens? What then?
– In my understanding, this topic is universal, there are no big political lefts or rights here… One can argue about a stricter or less strict requirement, but when we see growing immigration numbers, when we see problems and see the results of Lithuanian surveys, how they assess the current situation, then any politician who has at least some desire…
– Maybe we shouldn’t say Lithuanian survey, because this is Vilnius survey.
– Yes, let’s say, but if you look at your political career in perspective, you can’t ignore this topic. My goal with this initiative is to draw attention, raise priorities high, and if someone wants to take credit for solving the matter one way or another, please do. The most important thing is to get the ice moving.
– Because this is the biggest problem in Vilnius, on a Lithuanian scale?
– In Vilnius, we are at that limit, at the line beyond which, if we do nothing, we can already feel the consequences that none of us would want.
– And do you already see indications of those effects?
– If we talk about basic indicators, how the quality of the city is measured, then crime does not increase, when we clean up the city, then usually the next cleaning is carried out at the same interval. So we do not have any obvious problems that have arisen because of this. The same ghettos, where they talk about Muslim ghettos, that they exist, yes, people gather there, but there are several hundred people. This issue is also coordinated with the Department of State Security. So far, we have not lost anything that cannot be repaired.
– But if we were talking about people from Central Asia or Africa, their numbers are small.
– A few thousand, 2-3 thousand, let’s say, are new arrivals from Muslim countries. But even 2 thousand feel like it in the city, maybe 7 thousand in the context. It’s not a big number, but there is already a change in that. I can say frankly: if there are no changes in regulating immigration procedures, then all our efforts to teach, integrate will collapse like a house of cards. It won’t work, because there are no incentives, one might say, mild coercive measures to make these people start learning the language. So, they get to communicate in Russian, they can live and everything will go as usual. We have to review those rules. Then all the integration programs, language learning, everything else that we talked about, follow, but the basis is that. I feel like I’ve done my job today. Now I’m waiting for a response from the national government. I’m glad that the presidency is also involved and is also showing initiatives. I think we will somehow get this topic moving so that those decisions are actually made.
– This conversation in Russian further increases the use of the Russian language even among non-Russians.
– And this reduces the arguments why they should learn Lithuanian.
– Thank you for conversation.
Edmundas Jakilaitis, politika.lt, ELTA