Trump Jr. was in Tallinn recently, departing Monday morning according to Delfi.He was in town discuss security and economic policy at the same time high-level U.S. negotiators were in Ukraine, while he also attended functions organized by the casino industry.
While US peace negotiators Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff were in Moscow and in Kyiv, Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., was in Tallinn. Please, tell us what was he doing here?
He had some meeting of his own, but I also got the opportunity to attend a dinner, at the invitation of the U.S. side. Frankly, it was very interesting to meet someone who is not an active politician but who is nevertheless a very influential individual, to get a view of his attitude towards us, plus there was also an opportunity to talk about our own views on both security and economic policy. Perhaps contacts like these, with unconventional people close to the U.S. presidential administration, may prove handy one day.
Delfi has written about this expensive invite party held by casino company Studioworks at the Euroopa Liidu Maja in quite colorful terms, pointing out that it brought together a rather motley crew. Are you sure that conducting business in this kind of company is now the direction of our foreign policy?
It is not my place to comment on what Delfi writes, but those are two different events: One was a dinner with 13 people and the other was some other event. I had the opportunity to speak with Donald Trump Jr. at considerable length, and about important issues.
Did you also ask for any kind of support for Ukraine, and did you get any positive response?
Ukraine was discussed quite actively at the table.
And how was it discussed at the table?
I’ll leave the details to one side.
Then you should also know what took place in Moscow, as you happened to have an excellent contact at hand to ask about it.
Speaking seriously, I had a call with the Ukrainian foreign minister today, and he gave me an overview of what was talked about. In his assessment, there was no major breakthrough between Ukraine and Russia or on the peace process as a whole. But I will get an opportunity this week to find out more precisely through direct discussions.
However, I am still interested in this: When you did speak with Donald Trump Jr. about Ukraine, what was his attitude? How could it be that we have a freedom of the media in which Estonia ranks second and America is quite some way far behind – I understand all that – but how can it be that the son of such an influential president comes here yet we do not know what he was doing here?
We do know what he was doing, but those questions need to be put to those people who organized his visit here. The issues I discussed were related to security and economic policy.
Come on, you posed for a photo with an American rapper. I don’t know whether that was related to security or economic policy, but what was that rapper’s name? I’ve already forgotten.
I genuinely don’t know the rapper’s name. There were a lot of people there.
Margus Tsahkna with the unnamed US rapper. Source: Screenshot.
The one you posed for a photo with and who wrote in his social media post that he had taken a photo with the ‘prime minister’?
You’ll have to ask him about what he writes on his social media.
BOLD: Among the people you were there with were also – at least according to Delfi – was a New York mafia boss, I don’t know whether former or current, some casino people and some beauty queens. The whole thing had a bit of a 1990s vibe to it, I have to say.
You are now conflating two different events.
Then explain exactly what went on. Am I right in understanding that Donald Trump Jr. was here conducting casino business?
You will have to ask him and the people who organized his visit here. I attended a dinner where neither the casino business nor any business activities were discussed.
You didn’t ask why he was here either? Do you know why he came here?
My understanding was that he had business meetings here, so that is for him or his team to comment on.
When I think about it, it still could have been on casino business, as it was a casino company’s party that you were invited to. Were you there primarily as foreign minister, or were you carrying out Eesti 200 politics?
I was there at the invitation of the U.S. side, we held talks, and I think it would be pointless not to make use of a contact like that when a person like that comes to Estonia and is willing to discuss issues that are of interest to us, and that is what actually happened. There was no party at the dinner table where the 13 of us were seated.
So what did go on there?
There was a discussion on various topics, as I already said.
Who else from the government was invited?
No one else from the government was invited. It was a personal invitation for me.
Donald Trump Jr. Source: Gage Skidmore / Wikimedia Commons.
All right, let’s change track. In the German state of Saxony-Anhalt, the far right achieved a historic election result, winning nearly 44 percent of the vote. Can you imagine that one day you could be Estonia’s foreign minister at a time when the far right is in power in Germany?
Anything can happen. We saw the elections in that state and unfortunately the rise of extremist forces is indeed a reality not only in Germany but across Europe more broadly. I had thought that Germany’s extraordinary step of publicly attributing the Leipzig terror attack to Russia may also be an attempt to make its people understand that Russia genuinely poses a direct threat to them. Russia really is carrying out attacks against Germany and the German people.
But it seems to be having the opposite effect. When we watched Epp Ehand’s report from Germany, a great many people there seemed to feel that Russia is a much more normal country than Ukraine. It seems to be some kind of trend. What is the point of us making all this effort to help Ukraine if Germany itself starts leaning towards Russia?
We have to make the effort. It is in our own security interests, it is in Europe’s interests, and we should not draw definitive conclusions from the election result in a single state.
But as Epp Ehand said, that is actually the trend.
All of that is there, and I talk to Germans quite a lot and they are highly concerned. Voter turnout was also very high. The question is whether the majority of Germany can somehow consolidate itself, also looking at the results of this particular state election. Will there be a debate about what is genuinely in the security interests of Germany and Europe, or will we indeed at some point see a Germany whose government says that relations with Russia are normal and that we want the good old days back? That would certainly not be in Estonia’s interests.
What will happen to the EU if the far right comes to power in Germany?
We saw what happened in Hungary, under Viktor Orbán. I would not get ahead of events, though the issue is actually very serious, because the current model, in which 27 member states try to reach a consensus on security and foreign policy, would turn into something entirely different. I would also remind you that France has elections coming up next year and the far‑right presidential candidate there is also getting increasingly popular. Europe is facing some very serious and important questions.
One of the things we are also facing up to is climate change. Of course, you are the foreign minister, not the climate minister, although perhaps you could still become one. Do you also think about the possibility that climate change around the world could at some point put Estonia in a completely different foreign‑policy position from the one it is in today?
Foreign‑policy problems arising from climate change already exist in Europe, for example when we talk about migratory pressure from Africa. That is a reality. I remember that when I was social security minister in 2015, it directly affected Estonia’s domestic politics too, even though climate refugees did not actually want to come here. EKRE also emerged around that time, and one of its platforms was immigration, which may now also be helping AfD come to power in Germany, for instance.
Those direct links stemming from climate change, such as migration pressure or changes in the economic situation, will certainly be reflected in the domestic politics of democratic countries. Domestic politics, in turn, shapes foreign policy to a very large extent, so we certainly think about it. But if you ask whether we are prepared for it, or whether Europe, for example, has some well‑thought‑out strategy, I can say that in reality it does not, and the problems are dealt with one by one. The root causes of these problems are very often not purely scientific; they are also a matter of belief, and we see conflicts and divisions in different societies, not only in Europe.
Finally, I would ask this: When I usually interview a foreign minister, there is at least some hope that I will meet them again the following year. What do you think will have become of you six months from now? Will you still be in politics, or will you have left?
It is very hard to say. According to my original plans, I took the job of foreign minister for about a year, yet I am now already in my fourth year. I think the elections are in March, then forming a new government usually takes a couple of weeks or a month, and ultimately the voters will decide. Whether I am still in politics then or not, the good thing about foreign and security policy, at least, is that fortunately it is not a matter of day‑to‑day politics. We have agreed on certain fundamental principles, and in that sense I am not worried in terms of the elections, as Estonia’s foreign and security policy will certainly continue on the same trajectory.
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