The biggest news out of Pharrell‘s spring 2027 men’s collection for Louis Vuitton was arguably the skate-inspired sneaker he debuted several days before his latest runway outing on Tuesday in Paris.

The LV men’s creative director posted photos and a video to his Instagram page Saturday night revealing a spring 2027 deck sneaker called the Combi with a bright red crocodile leather upper. Commenters were quick to point out the resemblance to the Vans Authentic, and the California skate brand was prompt itself in capitalizing on the attention.

The next day, Vans commented, “ohhhh bet” on Pharrell‘s post and doubled-down with its own post featuring a photo of red Authentics with the caption, “Wanna know the time. Better clock us,” a lyric from The Clipse, the rap duo of Pusha T and Malice who has worked with Pharrell since their debut album.

But a deeper dive into the history of the sneaker silhouette sparked a debate about what makes a style truly original.

Sperry CVO

The Sperry CVO.

Operating as the Van Doren Rubber Company with a single store in Anaheim, Calif., Vans’ dropped the #44 (now known as the Authentic) as its first shoe in 1996. It was a quintessential canvas and rubber deck shoe, and the founders had now idea that it would take hold among skaters who found that the properties that helped it grip wooden boat decks worked just as well on skateboards before grip tape was introduced.

There can be little doubt that the Authentic is the most famous shoe of its style today, but that isn’t the same as being the originator. As Tyler, the Creator pointed out in his own comments on Instagram, Converse and Pro Keds both have similar styles that are much older. (Tyler the Creator is a Converse partner.)

Although made for a range of sports instead of boating, the Champion launched as Keds’ first shoe in 1916, and the layman would have a hard time telling it apart from the Authentic with nearly identical stitching forming its upper. All that’s missing is a stripe running around its midsole.

Both of those elements appear on the Sperry CVO, which is accepted as the first expressly made boat shoe and predates the Top Sider more commonly associated with the brand by a couple of years. Its name is short for Circular Vamp Oxford, as the design itself was a riff on Oxford shoes.

Sperry took the chance to subtly remind people of its role. The brand posted several colorways of the CVO to its feed Tuesday with the caption, “if you know, you know….,” which just so happens to be the name of a Pusha T song as well.

Finally there’s Converse. Its record-keeping on the shoes isn’t as good, but its Deck Star “boating Oxford” can be found in advertisements from at least as far back as 1962 and is the predecessor to the Naut-1 that debuted in 1971 and was revived by Tyler, the Creator last year.

Vans deserves credit for making the Authentic, a timeless silhouette that remains a fixture of its slate today. Outside of Louis Vuitton, major names from Dior and JW Anderson to Christian Louboutin and Jacquemus have similar styles out now.

That’s why it’s no surprise that the temperature around Vans — which has seen a yearslong revenue decline that has not yet reversed itself — is red hot right now. Perhaps that’s best exemplified by the recent cancellation of a New York City release following huge crowds and police intervention, which you don’t often see for brands other than Nike and Jordan Brand.

But saying that Pharrell and Louis Vuitton ripped off Vans specifically might be like saying a musician copied Jimi Hendrix by covering “All Along the Watchtower.” Hendrix may have done the song best, but it was Bob Dylan’s to begin with