\t\t\t\t\t\t![\"Sacem\"](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/france\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/05\/Sacem-logo-billboard-1800.jpg\"){kind=logo}
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\n\tRap-Veber\u2019s own career began in law before evolving into a long-term commitment to the music industry \u2014 first at Universal Music, then within one of the world\u2019s leading collective rights organizations, where she has steadily climbed the ranks since joining in 2013.<\/p>\n
\n\tIn 2025, SACEM distributed \u20ac1.5 billion ($1.7 billion) to 663,000 songwriters, composers, authors and publishers. The organization\u2019s primary growth driver was international digital collections, which rose 13% year-over-year, from \u20ac749 million ($880 million) to \u20ac845 million ($992 million), while collections in France remained stable at \u20ac859 million.<\/p>\n
\n\tIn an exclusive interview with Billboard France, Rap-Veber looks back on SACEM\u2019s 2025 performance and discusses the organization\u2019s future growth prospects.<\/p>\n
\t\t\u201cI\u2019ve Always Been Surrounded by Culture\u201d\t<\/p>\n
\n\tWhat was your first relationship with music?<\/p>\n
\n\tI think my parents influenced me deeply. My father was a fashion designer and used to create cassette tapes for his runway shows. Through him, I discovered American pop, disco and French vari\u00e9t\u00e9. Every weekend, we listened to opera at home.<\/p>\n
\n\tI belong to the generation of pirate radio stations \u2014 I had my little Sony Cube clock radio when NRJ first launched. I also grew up with Michael Jackson, Human League, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Indochine, and French artists like \u00c9tienne Daho and France Gall. I listened to music constantly.<\/p>\n
\n\tDid you grow up around artists?<\/p>\n
\n\tI come from a family of creators, though not specifically musicians.<\/p>\n
\n\tOne of my ancestors, Jos\u00e9-Maria de Heredia, founded the Parnassian poetry movement. My uncle is Francis Veber, director of The Dinner Game and La Ch\u00e8vre. My sister writes books, my mother was a journalist and theater director, and my father was a fashion designer. He recently told me \u2014 at 84 years old \u2014 that he had written a 350-page book. Even he has turned to writing now.<\/p>\n
\n\tI never thought I had their talent, so I chose intellectual property law in order to protect creators instead.<\/p>\n
\n\tSo your early legal career was already closely tied to artistic creation?<\/p>\n
\n\tVery quickly, I was drawn to law \u2014 business law and intellectual property law specifically. I loved the idea of defending culture. In 1995, after passing the bar exam, I joined a law firm specializing in the field.<\/p>\n
\n\tAbout 75% of our clients came from the music business. We represented EMI and Virgin, as well as artists like Zazie and Matthieu Chedid. The remaining 25% came from film and television production.<\/p>\n
\n\tIn reality, I have always worked within culture.<\/p>\n
\t\tFrom Universal to SACEM\t<\/p>\n
\n\tWhat changed between your work as a lawyer and your role at Universal?<\/p>\n
\n\tAs a lawyer, my career had two dimensions. One was contractual \u2014 negotiating artists\u2019 rights when they signed to labels. The other was litigation, where I argued cases involving copyright infringement or privacy violations. I even handled criminal cases for certain rappers. I loved being in court.<\/p>\n
\n\tAt Universal, I represented the label\u2019s interests, but I was always focused on maintaining balance between the artist and the company. At the time, record deals often covered three or four albums, and I believed those relationships needed to be balanced from the beginning to last over time.<\/p>\n
\n\tI arrived during an extraordinary period, just before the collapse of the physical music market, when Universal was diversifying aggressively. I helped develop projects like Popstars and Star Academy. I became involved in far more strategic initiatives than I had as an attorney.<\/p>\n
\t\tLeading One of the World\u2019s Largest Collective Rights Organizations\t<\/p>\n
\n\tYou joined SACEM in 2013 before becoming CEO in 2021. What was your initial role?<\/p>\n
\n\tWhen I arrived in 2013, my responsibilities covered licensing: media, CDs, private copying and the early days of digital. Because digital is inherently global, I quickly found myself managing many international matters.<\/p>\n
\n\tHandling digital rights means processing enormous volumes of data. To support that, we built a data-processing platform called URights. Later, when a colleague retired, my predecessor also entrusted me with international operations.<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\tRelated\t\t<\/p>\n
\t\t\t<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t<\/a><\/p>\n \n\tWhat was SACEM\u2019s image when you arrived?<\/p>\n \n\tSACEM already had the reputation of being a major global leader. Sister societies around the world always respected it, largely because of the strength of French copyright law, which is built on an exceptionally protective legislative framework.<\/p>\n \n\tBut like all collective management organizations, SACEM faced accusations of opacity. That was something I wanted to change.<\/p>\n \n\tComing from Universal and from law, I honestly didn\u2019t really know what SACEM was before joining. Once inside, I discovered 1,300 employees entirely devoted to defending authors\u2019 rights, creators and publishers. But perhaps they didn\u2019t communicate enough about what they were doing.<\/p>\n \n\tWe worked extensively on transparency. Today, our members know exactly what has been collected, distributed, and whether their catalogs are properly registered.<\/p>\n \n\tAt the same time, we reduced management costs by nearly 40% over the past five years. I hope people are proud of their copyright society.<\/p>\n \n\tHow did you lower costs while increasing membership?<\/p>\n \n\tEvery year since the post-COVID recovery, SACEM has doubled its number of new members. We went from around 7,000 new members annually to nearly 15,000 over the past five years.<\/p>\n \n\tAt first, these new members don\u2019t immediately generate royalties. But after a few years, they begin creating and releasing works. We now collect royalties both for these emerging careers and for our digital partners.<\/p>\n \n\tTo reduce costs, we first pooled our IT infrastructure with more creators worldwide. Then we migrated our processing tools to the cloud, which made us significantly more efficient.<\/p>\n \n\tToday, we collect more royalties than ever thanks to streaming growth, for more creators thanks to our partnerships, and with more agile tools.<\/p>\n \t\tInternational Growth and the Streaming Economy\t<\/p>\n \n\tInternational business is driving much of Sacem\u2019s growth. Why?<\/p>\n \n\tAbsolutely. Originally, SACEM was built around the French market and traditional exploitation channels like concerts and media. But those sectors have remained stable in recent years because traditional media has suffered from declining advertising revenues.<\/p>\n \n\tMeanwhile, we\u2019ve tried to stabilize \u2014 or even reduce \u2014 costs for partners such as retailers and municipalities, which are themselves struggling with inflation.<\/p>\n \n\tToday, the real growth is coming from international digital business. Our members are now exporting globally; for some of them, international streams represent 50% to 60% of their revenues. That\u2019s enormous.<\/p>\n \n\tWe\u2019ve seen it with L\u2019Imp\u00e9ratrice and Gojira, not to mention DJ Snake or David Guetta. The number of French creators with global reach keeps growing.<\/p>\n \n\tHow do you track royalties from live performances abroad?<\/p>\n \n\tLive operates on a declaration system. We ask creators, publishers or managers to submit their setlists through our portal. At the same time, promoters submit their own declarations. We then cross-reference those two streams of information.<\/p>\n \n\tFor international performances, we work with sister societies to ensure collection. It\u2019s worth noting that in France, we can collect royalties regardless of venue size, whereas in the U.S., legal restrictions prevent ASCAP from collecting everywhere.<\/p>\n \n\tDoes working with so many foreign collecting societies weaken SACEM\u2019s leadership position?<\/p>\n \n\tASCAP, the main U.S. society, has 1.5 million members, but SACEM collects more royalties overall. ASCAP collects for everyone in the United States, including SACEM members, through reciprocal agreements.<\/p>\n \n\tWhat can be confusing to outside observers is distinguishing the share we retain for our own members from the share we redistribute to foreign sister societies.<\/p>\n \n\tYou\u2019ve signed agreements with African collecting societies. Is this a major growth area for francophone music?<\/p>\n \n\tIt\u2019s one of my greatest ambitions. For ten years, we\u2019ve worked to help African creators earn a living from their music. It\u2019s complex because digital rights management requires heavy technological investment.<\/p>\n \n\tWe signed agreements with Burida in Ivory Coast and Sodav in Senegal to manage their global digital rights. We\u2019re doing the same for Arabic-language creators, particularly in Lebanon.<\/p>\n \n\tToday, those repertoires generate several million euros in digital royalties, and their international reach continues to expand. It\u2019s an incredible momentum.<\/p>\n \t\tStreaming, AI and the Future of Rights\t<\/p>\n \n\tIn the early 2010s, Sacem negotiated major deals with streaming platforms. How was royalty allocation determined?<\/p>\n \n\tThe foundation was laid with the launch of Apple\u2019s iTunes. iTunes valued authors\u2019 rights at 8% of the download price, based on 9% of the wholesale CD price.<\/p>\n \n\tThat was unfair because digital eliminated manufacturing and logistics costs for labels. Authors\u2019 rights should have represented a larger share. But once a global standard is established, it becomes very difficult to reverse.<\/p>\n \n\tAt the start of streaming, deals were also around 8%, but over time we managed to double that figure to roughly 16% today.<\/p>\n \n\tMaster rights still receive the lion\u2019s share, though that could change with AI. Training models rely first and foremost on the underlying composition, not necessarily on the original recording. That gives us leverage to capture more value for creators.<\/p>\n \n\tHas digital improved transparency, or only increased complexity?<\/p>\n \n\tBoth.<\/p>\n \n\tDigital allows creators from any country to reach a global audience through streaming platforms. We\u2019ve signed agreements with YouTube, Meta and TikTok that provide us with precise usage data, enabling more accurate royalty distribution.<\/p>\n \n\tAt the same time, the volume of content has become overwhelming, especially with the explosion of generative AI. Standing out in that sea of content is increasingly difficult.<\/p>\n \n\tDigital is therefore an opportunity, but also carries the risk of dilution, with lower value per track than during the CD era.<\/p>\n \n\tFrance still lags behind other markets in paid streaming penetration. Does that concern you?<\/p>\n \n\tIt has concerned us for years. Paid streaming penetration in France remains around 25%, versus 50% in the United States.<\/p>\n \n\tFrance is a country deeply attached to free access to culture. That\u2019s wonderful for audiences, but it slows conversion to paid services.<\/p>\n \n\tWhy is free streaming growing faster than paid streaming in France?<\/p>\n \n\tThe free offering has become so good that users don\u2019t always feel the need to pay. It\u2019s an acquisition funnel that doesn\u2019t convert enough.<\/p>\n \n\tIf people become convinced that culture should be free, it becomes very difficult to monetize it later. Yet financing creation means paying artists \u2014 and everyone working behind the scenes.<\/p>\n \n\tThere probably need to be more restrictions on free tiers to encourage subscriptions.<\/p>\n \n\tThat said, we are in 2026, in the middle of a global economic crisis and inflationary pressure. It\u2019s understandable that for many people, heating, housing and food come before paying for music.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\tRelated\t\t<\/p>\n \t\t\t<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t<\/a><\/p>\n \t\t\u201cAI Must Develop With Creators, Not Against Them\u201d\t<\/p>\n \n\tWhat form are your negotiations with AI companies taking?<\/p>\n \n\tEverything still needs to be built. The first deals with AI firms will be experimental. The primary objective is to compensate creators for the training of models on their works.<\/p>\n \n\tSeveral questions remain unresolved: should generated content stay within the applications? Who should pay \u2014 the AI company or the professional user?<\/p>\n \n\tSACEM has always found ways to reach agreements with technology companies, and that is still what drives us today.<\/p>\n \n\tAre you negotiating alongside master rights holders?<\/p>\n \n\tYes, I\u2019m discussing with some of them whether we would be stronger together. But I will not sign any agreement without creators\u2019 approval.<\/p>\n \n\tSome companies believe they can negotiate directly, but I believe authors did not necessarily anticipate AI-related uses when they joined SACEM.<\/p>\n \n\tCertain AI companies even claim they only need the composition and not the master recording. For now, discussions remain limited because many AI firms simply refuse to engage.<\/p>\n \n\tThey refuse to answer you?<\/p>\n \n\tCompletely. They admit they trained on publicly available material, but they confuse \u201cavailable\u201d with \u201cfree of rights.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tWhen we ask for transparency, they don\u2019t respond. That\u2019s why we are pushing for legislation that would reverse the burden of proof.<\/p>\n \n\tCan a fully AI-generated work currently be registered with SACEM?<\/p>\n \n\tIt depends on the degree of human creation involved.<\/p>\n \n\tBj\u00f6rn Ulvaeus \u2014 ABBA co-founder and CISAC president \u2014 explains that he uses Suno as an additional studio tool while still composing songs himself on guitar. In that case, the work remains original and copyright-protected.<\/p>\n \n\tBut simply prompting an AI to create \u201cMozart-style music with Ferr\u00e9-style lyrics\u201d is not enough to qualify for copyright protection. We published guidelines on our website explaining those conditions.<\/p>\n \n\tDo you still see commercial opportunities in AI?<\/p>\n \n\tEvery technological innovation is an opportunity. Jean-Michel Jarre and Pedro Winter have used technology for years to push creativity further.<\/p>\n \n\tIf copyright is respected, then I say absolutely yes. We need to create a virtuous relationship in which technology develops alongside creators, not against them.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\tRelated\t\t<\/p>\n![\"Market,](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/france\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/05\/FTDO-cecile-rap-veber-billboard-2023-bb9-matthew-avignone-1-1548.jpg\")
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