Eric Winter and Melissa O’Neil, The Rookie
Disney/Mike Taing
[Warning: This story contains spoilers for The Rookie’s Season 8 finale, “The Bandit.” Read at your own risk!]
Melissa O’Neil and Eric Winter immediately knew that the season-ending cliffhanger for the latest season of The Rookie would leave many viewers — especially fans of their sergeant characters, Lucy Chen and Tim Bradford — screaming at their TV screens.
Eight seasons after they were first introduced as rookie and training officer, respectively, Lucy and Tim finally got engaged in a romantic proposal on a local beach — only for their celebrations to be cut short by Heath Everett (Jeffrey Vincent Parise), the uberwealthy crime boss who once told Tim that he would regret turning down a bribe from him. Just seconds after Lucy put the ring on her finger, a man and a woman approached to congratulate them and then injected both of them in the back of the neck with a sedative.
“The whiplash of that [final] moment is what we do as a show,” creator and showrunner Alexi Hawley previously told TV Guide of ending the finale with a “Chenford” kidnapping. “It’s not like I didn’t think about [a different ending]. We could have ended the season with just a happy ending, and people would still have come back and it would’ve been satisfying, but where’s the drama in that, really?”
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Speaking for the first time about their characters’ surprising engagement, O’Neil and Winter caught up exclusively with TV Guide in separate conversations earlier this week. Their chats have been edited into the conversation below.
Alexi recently told me that he knew “from fairly early on” this season that Tim would propose to Lucy in the finale. At what point did he clue the two of you into his plan, and what was your reaction to the way the proposal — and that big twist — played out?
Eric Winter: Two-thirds into the season, we knew it was going to happen, but we didn’t know the way it would play out. I’m trying to think back to when I first read the script, and I think I was surprised. So I knew we were going to propose. I didn’t know about the jab to the neck.
Melissa O’Neil: That’s right, because everyone was reading the script at different paces. When we’re in the throes of filming the season, the scripts come out and we’re staggered. We have lives. We’re also prepping for scenes that we’re in the middle of shooting. Different departments get the scripts before us. So a lot of the time, the department heads will get it first, and then inevitably department heads are talking to other crew people, and crew people will come up to us and be like, “Did you hear?!” So it was buzzy on set that those things were going to happen. I found out, actually, through other crew members and not from the script.
Winter: I thought it was really smart to find a way to make this whole thing complicated, as always, which I think is what makes it fun and unique. Nothing is smooth in their relationship. It never has been! [Laughs.] So even something as simple as a proposal going sideways into a kidnapping, I thought it was going to make people flip out and think about what’s possibly next.
O’Neil: It’s very gratifying that we finally give the audience this moment. They’re happy, they love each other, they’re living together, they’re a great team at work and at home, they’re ready to dive in and get official — and then, of course, it’s getting put into jeopardy. So we get to continue this thing that has become a hallmark for The Rookie when it comes to these two characters: Will they get married, or won’t they? [Laughs.] So it made me laugh. I was happy for Tim and Lucy, and at the same time, I had a moment, as an audience member myself, thinking, “Oh, of course.”
Eric, when we spoke earlier this season, you sneakily said that Tim had not yet allowed himself to entertain the thought of proposing to Lucy, but you had already finished filming the season by that point. In retrospect, when do you think Tim made the decision that he was going to propose?
Winter: That’s a great question. There were a couple pivotal moments. Lucy being there for Tim when he was trying to figure out his new job position [as watch commander] and how to navigate his new role and responsibilities showed how much she was really there for him and trying to continue to elevate his career in a certain way. And when his mom [Joy, played by Sela Ward] came into the picture, the way [Lucy] navigated all of that is probably more pivotal. Just trying to build the connection with his mom and dive in deeper for Tim, and have their moment of peace and understanding based on their past — that was pivotal for Tim.
You previously admitted to me that Tim’s dynamic with his mom was unlike what you had initially envisioned. Was there a particular part of that relationship that you enjoyed playing?
Winter: Yeah, the awkwardness was really fun to play, because I didn’t think it would be as awkward and tricky for Tim, to be honest. I thought they were going to have this deep connection, and it would be more straight down the middle. He loves her to death, but she makes him — uncomfortable isn’t the right word. But his mom showing up by surprise, calling him out on and getting in the middle of all his stuff, and making him uncomfortable about the way he is in his relationship with Lucy — it was not how I saw it unfolding. I always thought that they had a much cleaner, stronger relationship given how bad it was with his dad, and clearly there was a lot to unpack even for Tim and his mom.
Tim’s mom gave him a very ugly purple ring that belonged to his grandmother to give to Lucy, but Tim thankfully decided to go another direction. Do you think Tim actually got his grandmother’s ring checked and confirmed that the stone was a fake, or did he just lie to protect his own mother’s feelings?
Winter: I’m trying to remember this, because there was a moment where Angela’s [Alyssa Diaz] like, “This thing is not real.” But that’s a great question too. I feel like once Tim got this sense from Lopez, he knew the ring was not great and he just pivoted. I don’t think he’d ever probably go through the hassle of getting it fully checked. He just knows it wasn’t for her.
ALSO READ: The Rookie showrunner breaks down the Season 8 finale
Melissa, in our last conversation, you sneakily said that Lucy and Tim were “absolutely in the honeymoon phase of a relationship,” but that you could “see the potential for them to be moving into that next step.” Do you think Lucy had an inkling that Tim was going to propose?
O’Neil: I thought that Lucy had no idea it was coming. She thought that he was being weird when [in the penultimate episode] he was like, “I’m going to go grab dinner with Lopez. I’ll see you later. Bye.” Obviously, he’s down on one knee and he’s got a ring, but his speech is about the place that he was in and how he has changed through their relationship. So even there, she’s listening to him, because we have not had the opportunity to see him sharing his heart about how he feels about them like that. So instead of [Lucy’s reaction] being this explosive, big shock of a surprise, [I wanted to play] more of the awe of seeing this man that you love show a color that you haven’t seen yet and articulating clearly with his words how he’s feeling. So, yeah, I think she was surprised, but not in the conventional way that we would think of stereotypically.
Tim delivers a really lovely monologue in the penultimate episode when talking to the jeweler about Lucy in front of Angela. It almost feels like he’s caught off guard by how emotional he gets about the love that she has for him.
Winter: A lot of it was his feeling of discomfort of really opening up, and it’s not easy for him to be able to do that. The fact that he even allowed himself to open up — not in such a super public setting, but it’s a jeweler, it’s Angela, there’s a bodyguard around — and that he could speak his feelings into words shows how far he’s come, because he’s just not a guy that is great with words in that regard. So he’s saying everything, he’s struggling with getting it out, and there’s an emotional ride you’re going on with him.
Alexi told me that it was a bit of group effort behind the scenes to find the ring. Melissa, did you have any conversations with Alexi about Lucy’s ring, considering that you would presumably have to wear that piece of jewelry for as long as that relationship works out on the show?
O’Neil: I was not involved in that decision-making at all. It was interesting to me because I’ve had a couple of friends get engaged and married, and oftentimes, with rings, their shape and size — a lot of that really depends on what a woman’s hand looks like. Some rings can make a woman’s hand look super weird! That never occurred to me until the day that we were shooting, and I thought to myself, “Oh goodness, I hope this ring looks nice on my hand, because I have strong hands.” [Laughs.] But I was actually very surprised. Not that it matters, but I think that it’s a beautiful ring for Lucy. It’s modest and ladylike, but not so much that it wouldn’t work with her work environment. It’s the perfect amount of sweetness without being too blingy.
Let’s talk about shooting the proposal itself. Did you have any conversations with each other or with Bill Roe, who directed the finale, about how you wanted to play that moment?
Winter: I talked a little bit with Bill about it because I wanted to make sure that it was what the writers’ room and Alexi had really wanted. I had my own take on how I thought it would be. I thought it would be as genuine as possible and a full maturity moment for him — that he’s going to do this, that he’s going to be proud and strong, and not stumble and just be emotionally available. And that’s what they wanted — just a very raw, real, honest proposal.
O’Neil: Bill had some really beautiful and sweet ideas about how to block it. I was surprised that they stayed so far out in the [camera] coverage. What was planned was her touching him forehead-to-forehead while he’s still kneeling [after she says yes] and then that [touch] leading into a kiss as he’s standing. It’s messy and awkward, but they’re just wanting to come together in that moment. There is a moment of intimacy and having our faces really close before smashing together into a hug and a kiss. That was something that we did discuss.
I tried to let myself play what felt true in the moment, given what I know about the two of them. Even though a lot of things happen off-camera, because we haven’t seen it so much on camera, there is a part of me that feels that while she knows that he loves her, he’s probably not very declarative about it. He’s action-based and supportive, and they have their chemistry, but I don’t think he uses his words to express that love very often. So she was really rapt in that moment and trying to soak it in and absorb it. I liked the juxtaposition that there was this obsession about the ring for him and for the people around him, but for her, it’s about him. I liked the contrast of that.
Eric Winter and Melissa O’Neil, The Rookie
Disney/Mike Taing
Melissa, when you were trying to describe the finale in a recent interview, you talked about how you and your scene partner — who we now know was Eric — were running back and forth between multiple locations and shooting with three camera units over the course of a few hours. I’m assuming you were shooting the proposal and the massive military ship.
Winter: Yeah, it was a full beach day. Most of the crew went out [on location], but we were separated. We were shooting at the docks doing all this crazy military-type stuff, and then a group shot over to shoot that proposal. We had to do the whole scene multiple times and then wait until the exact moment when the sun was about to go down, and Bill started firing off a bunch more just long lens [shots], really capturing the beauty of that whole backdrop. Bill got some beautiful footage out there.
O’Neil: Anytime you’re shooting on the beach, it’s a logistical nightmare for the crew who have to lug all of that stuff over the sand. But it was a very beautiful private beach. Because we had to wait for the magic hour, everything was set up, and everyone was hanging out by the rocks and sitting quietly and taking in the sunset. There was actually a full moon that night as well, so people were taking photos. It was very serene and peaceful… and then it became insane, because we had to get the scene while the light was perfect, and we had a blip of a moment to do it. We only really got to do it two or three times, because the reset [for each take] was so big — we fell down to the ground, we’re kidnapped — so it was a big deal.
But when it comes to doing three different units, that was actually on the warship — and that was a massive feat. Alexi was running a unit. Ryan [Krayser], one of our ADs and occasional directors, was running a unit. Bill was running a unit. It was absolute insanity. We would use golf carts to quickly shuttle each other to different units, and we kept flip-flopping because it was location-based. It was a real credit to what our crew can accomplish, especially our ADs, and how they organize everything.
Winter: [Shooting on the ship] was incredible. All those dinghies, those military boats we were taking out in the water, the giant ship at the port of Los Angeles — they’re insane set pieces. I kept telling fans, “It’s like you’re going to watch a movie.” It just felt so big.
O’Neil: Nathan [Fillion] was having a blast! He was like a little boy. He couldn’t believe it. He was like, “This is amazing.” It was so cute.
Just after Tim and Lucy were injected with a sedative and right before they had bags put over their heads, they briefly touch hands as if to reassure each other. Alexi told me that final touch was not scripted.
Winter: Yeah, that wasn’t scripted. That was Bill. He had this great idea — he wanted to make it seem like they were getting super hazy and seeing blurry, and then their last moment before [the screen] going to black was that they were trying to reach for each other. Bill was very smart with that. I can’t take credit for that.
O’Neil: They’re both wildly protective, so while they’re losing their consciousness, it’s a no-brainer that they would reach for each other.
Can both of you give voice to what is going through your characters’ minds after they’re drugged?
Winter: I don’t think Tim anticipated anything. When that jab hits, he’s feeling this rise of shock, and then the medication starts making him hazy and blurry. He’s reaching for her, almost in a sense of, “Can I help you? Can I save you? Can I do anything?” And he’s just gone. So I don’t think he even knows it’s Everett [behind the attack]. Until the girl delivers that message, he has no idea until that moment. And then it’s just like, “Oh my God…”
O’Neil: They’re both people who put the other first in a lot of situations, so Lucy’s definitely reaching for him to make sure he’s OK and to also ask for help. But I don’t think she’s thinking. She’s at the mercy of her captors, and maybe the last thing would probably be a really strong dose of fear, especially because this is something that has happened to her before. It’s both familiar and confusing.
Listen, I’ve had surgery before, so I’ve experienced anesthesia. Anyone else who has will know that it’s like you’re thinking one thing, and then suddenly you’re not. I’m hopeful that [the drug] is not some type of memory killer. I hope that when we wake up, it’s just something that made us pass out, so she retains herself and her skills and the fact that she loves him. It’s crazy when there’s a mysterious drug injected that causes you to lose consciousness — there’s a million things that can happen! I don’t think our show would go that [amnesiac] route, but I come from the sci-fi world, so it could be literally anything. [Laughs.]
Lucy is certainly no stranger to being kidnapped — her “Day of Death” episode from Season 2 is still one of The Rookie’s most haunting episodes ever — but what do you think a “Chenford” kidnapping will actually look like? Even though the writers’ room has not yet opened for Season 9, have you and Alexi had any discussions about where the next season will pick up?
Winter: I have no idea. I know there was a lot of talk about going international at some point. I think that’s gotten pushed away. We’re not doing that, but I feel like they’ll be separated to make it even more stressful. But that’s a total guess. If they are separated, it would be such high stakes, and Tim would feel horrific and a lot of panic and a lot of fear. And if they’re together, obviously, he’s going to have all that too, but he’s going to start thinking, “How do I get us out of this?” So I think there might be a fun thing to play, like, “Where is she? How do I find her?” That moment of not knowing what to do, even more so when he doesn’t know where she’s at.
O’Neil: Given that this is punishment from Everett, I feel like maybe — oh God, it would suck for Lucy and for everyone if she was held as some form of collateral to punish Bradford. That’s just what’s coming off the top of my head. Because as far as Lucy’s concerned, she’s like, “Everett, who?!” [Laughs.] As she’s passing out, she’s like, “Who’s Everett?!” So that’s definitely something that might be a factor. I could also see them both being in peril, but it would be interesting to have Lucy be the collateral for whatever Everett’s trying to get out of Bradford, or if he’s just trying to punish them.
Assuming Tim and Lucy both survive this kidnapping, Alexi has promised that there will be a wedding. Tim has been married before, but what do you think his and Lucy’s ideal wedding would look like?
Winter: I always feel like Tim would not go for such a big wedding. We had the Nolan-Bailey [Jenna Dewan] wedding, which was much on a bigger scale. I don’t see Tim having something like that. I feel like he would be much more low-key. I joke that it would be an elopement, but I don’t think that the fans would ever forgive Alexi if he did that. [Laughs.] I think they’d want something!
O’Neil: It’s funny that you even say elopement because I could see them doing something more quiet and private, especially because of the chaos of their proposal. Their social circles are rather small. I could even see them doing a courthouse wedding, like, “You know what? After the kidnapping, I don’t want anything big. I just want to love you. I just want to be married. Let’s just call it a day.” I could see that — a really cute suit, nice cute outfit, court wedding. People do that all the time now. It’s very chic and beautiful.
The only issue is that Angela and Wesley (Shawn Ashmore) already had a courthouse wedding, which we never actually saw on screen, and Alexi has said that he does not like to repeat himself.
O’Neil: Wait, a destination wedding — we haven’t done a destination wedding yet! [Laughs.]
Let’s start manifesting that! Do you think Lucy would change her surname to Bradford, or would she keep “Chen”?
O’Neil: It’s an interesting question. It’s hard for me to not input my own opinion in there. I’m trying to think about Chen as a person. She’s a really hard worker, and she takes pride in her name. I’m also thinking about the practicality of cops — their last names are like their monikers, even out and about when they’re doing neighborhood work too. So… you know what? I think professionally she’d keep Chen, but on all the paperwork — like her passport for their destination wedding [laughs] — maybe she’d hyphen it. But I don’t know. Lucy Chen just rolls off the tongue though!
Eric, I’m going to end off with a fun question that Melissa actually declined to answer the last time I spoke with her, but I will pose it to you. There is a small subset of The Rookie fandom that cannot figure out, for the life of them, where the bathroom is in the “Chenford” house. Does the set that you guys shoot on have a bathroom?
Winter: No! [Laughs.] I haven’t seen it yet. They’ll build one at some point if there’s ever one to be used, but there’s definitely never been one that I’ve seen.
Melissa, do you have any response to that?
O’Neil: Eric, you’re a buzzkill! [Laughs.] He doesn’t even allow any mystery. That’s what cracks me up. It’s like, “Of course there’s curiosity. Let them be curious!” He’s like, “Nope, there’s no bathroom. You’ll never see Bradford in the bathroom.”
All eight seasons of The Rookie are now streaming on Hulu. Click here to read our finale interview with showrunner Alexi Hawley.