Former taoiseach Bertie Ahern has insisted he has “no problem” with people from “the Congo” or Africa after footage surfaced of him speaking to a woman about immigration during a byelection canvass last week.
During the video, which was made without Ahern’s knowledge, the woman raised concerns about immigration and sharia law, with the former taoiseach saying he believed there were too many migrants coming into the country.
He said the “ones I worry about are the Africans”, adding “we can’t be taking in people from the Congo and all these places. I think there’s too many from those places.”
He also said he was concerned about second-generation Muslims born to people who came into the country, and that he had communicated this to Minister for Justice Jim O’Callaghan.
Speaking to The Irish Times on Wednesday, he said “I’ve no problem with people from the Congo or Africa or anywhere else. I’ve good friends around Drumcondra, there’s a lot of the clergy in from Africa.”
Taoiseach Micheál Martin sought to distance Fianna Fáil from Ahern’s comments on Wednesday, saying it was not appropriate to be specific about any ethnicity.
“We have many different ethnicities in Ireland, many Irish citizens with different ethnic backgrounds, and that has to be respected,” Martin said.
Ahern said he had heard the Taoiseach’s comments. “Just to be absolutely clear, the Taoiseach seemed to think I have some problem with Jim O’Callaghan’s policy, I don’t,” Ahern said.
The former taoiseach said his issue was with the speed at which people were processed through the immigration system, which should happen as quickly as possible, and he said O’Callaghan had sped it up.
He said he had been “in the heat of a fire with [the woman who made the video] and I was actually defending Ukrainians at the time. I probably shouldn’t mention anyone but that’s … I don’t have any problem with any of these people, my only problem is the system, that it should be dealt with very quickly,” he said.
Ahern added: “Because they do arrive here, they just arrive here from nowhere without papers and that’s the difficulty.
“I’m in Dublin Central all the time and down around Gardiner Street, inner city, and you just hear endlessly people giving out about it,” he said.
The video was taken during a canvass in support of Fianna Fáil’s candidate in the Dublin Central byelection, John Stephens.
Ahern said he didn’t think anyone should be ruled out in the byelection contest with nine days to go, but that it was “probably a battle between Sinn Féin and the SocDems [Social Democrats]”.
“I think both of them, the SocDems have put in a strong campaign – [Social Democrat candidate Daniel] Ennis has been up to my place four times in the last three months, and the lads tell me he’s coming up a fair bit in Cabra.”
But he said that with Sinn Féin on more than 20 per cent support nationally, even if Ennis matched the 13 per cent first-preference vote achieved by sitting Social Democrats TD for Dublin Central Gary Gannon, it would be difficult.
He said the main objective for Stephens would be to put in a good showing for the next general election.
“The big thing is that they strengthen their position and they ran a good campaign this time, they ran a campaign mainly with Ógra members – I’ve been out with them several times,” he said.
“This is getting him up in lights for the next general [election].”
The issue was raised in the Dáil when People Before Profit TD Paul Murphy accused Ahern of “disgusting racism”.
He claimed the comments showed a “very blatant agenda” to “scapegoat immigrants, divide ordinary people” so that “nobody blames Ahern, Fianna Fáil and the landlords and developers you have allowed to profit from the housing crisis”.
Reiterating his earlier comments, the Taoiseach said: “I don’t approve of any commentary that would in any way undermine any particular ethnicity or any person with a particular ethnic background.
“And my understanding is that Mr Ahern, former taoiseach, has resiled from those comments and he says he has no issue with people who come through our asylum process.”
Murphy said: “What people say when they don’t think they’re being recorded is actually more valuable than what they say when they do know they’re being recorded.
“And it suggests a dirty game used on doors” to divide ordinary people, “to have them not blaming the people you represent” but to “blame the people from Congo or wherever else”, Murphy said.
But the Taoiseach rejected Murphy’s comments as “unacceptable” and insisted it was not Fianna Fáil’s policy or approach.
He told Murphy: “You’re no angel yourself when it comes to politics” and “you’re not shy yourself in terms of mischaracterising people, mis-spinning and deliberately exaggerating positions of different politicians on an ongoing basis.”
Martin also criticised Murphy’s call for council rent increases to be reversed.
“You want more and more and more services” but “when it comes to the annual budget, you guys never voted for them”, Martin said.
“But other politicians have to step up with a bit of guts and a bit of courage and vote and make sure the city runs. And that’s the difference between your politics and the politics of the majority.”
Canvassing in Cabra on Wednesday, Sinn Féin candidate Janice Boylan said she had not seen or heard Ahern’s comments. She said the immigration system needed to be revitalised and needed to be “working properly, effective, equality-based and enforced”.
“If [Ahern is] making off-the-cuff comments like that it’s bad form, it’s absolutely bad form, particularly for someone in a position that he was in before,” she said.
Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald, who was on the canvas with Boylan, said she had heard the comments.
“How Fianna Fáil is this? To have a position publicly and then to be saying different things privately. I think that’s really unhelpful,” she said. McDonald said there needed to be “thoughtful management of issues around every aspect of migration” and criticised the Government for its approach.
“If Fianna Fáil want to be speaking out of all sides of their mouth, that’s kind of for them,” she said.
Asked if she would condemn the comments, as others had, she said: “That’s wrong, it’s wrong to identify or to zero in on any one group of people in that way..”