{"id":109632,"date":"2025-10-08T20:59:10","date_gmt":"2025-10-08T20:59:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/109632\/"},"modified":"2025-10-08T20:59:10","modified_gmt":"2025-10-08T20:59:10","slug":"michelle-gildernew-and-ian-paisley-jnr-go-toe-to-toe-on-united-ireland-the-irish-times","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/109632\/","title":{"rendered":"Michelle Gildernew and Ian Paisley jnr go toe to toe on united Ireland \u2013 The Irish Times"},"content":{"rendered":"

Behind a glass partition at a BBC<\/a> studio in Belfast, staff whisper about a feisty on-air exchange earlier that day.<\/p>\n

\u201cThere was a bit of a ding-dong,\u201d a producer says.<\/p>\n

On the other side of the glass, former Ireland rugby star Andrew Trimble is asked during a podcast how he feels about a Border poll (\u201canxious enough\u201d, he says) and his Irishness (he\u2019s \u201cvery proud\u201d).<\/p>\n

There is no tension in the room.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt does feel like a bit of a palate cleanser, this episode,\u201d someone is overheard remarking, comparing it to the clash with a loyalist blogger in a previous recording.<\/p>\n

The Trimble interview features in a new podcast series, Borderland \u2013 UK or United Ireland? It\u2019s the first time BBC Northern Ireland has tackled the unity debate in this way and the broadcaster describes the show as landmark.<\/p>\n

\"FormerFormer Sinn F\u00e9in MP Michelle Gildernew and former DUP MP Ian Paisley with presenter Chris Buckler and Andrew Trimble in the studio. Photograph: Arthur Allison\/Pacemaker Press<\/p>\n

But it was the choice of hosts that made headlines last month when it emerged that two high-profile former MPs had agreed to the job.<\/p>\n

Ex-Sinn F\u00e9in<\/a> Fermanagh South Tyrone MP Michelle Gildernew<\/a> and former DUP North Antrim MP Ian Paisley jnr<\/a> suffered humiliating electoral defeats last year.<\/p>\n

To date they have said little about their departure from politics \u2013 in Paisley\u2019s case, there has been silence \u2013 or their relationship with their respective parties.<\/p>\n

The pair have known each other since the late 1990s and are diametrically opposed on the constitutional question.<\/p>\n

They agreed to speak with The Irish Times last week ahead of the podcast airing.<\/p>\n

Sitting opposite each other in the studio \u2013 the programme\u2019s main presenter is BBC NI journalist Chris Buckler \u2013 they have an easy rapport despite disagreeing on most subjects on and off air.<\/p>\n

Gildernew (55) was approached by Buckler with the idea when she was doing analysis of the Republic\u2019s general election last December.<\/p>\n

\u201cI was intrigued at the thought of it. When they told me that the unionist was Ian Paisley jnr, I said, \u2018That\u2019s okay, I can work with him, that\u2019s grand\u2019.<\/p>\n

\u201cWe\u2019ve known each other a lifetime.\u201d<\/p>\n

Paisley (58) agrees that the show\u2019s pairing was \u201cno surprise\u201d when it was first pitched to him.<\/p>\n

He says he feels \u201cliberated\u201d to express his views \u201cbecause I\u2019m no longer an MP\u201d.<\/p>\n

In the first episode Paisley says he would be \u201copen\u201d to the idea of a Border poll but he hasn\u2019t heard a \u201cpersuasive argument\u201d for it and remains a \u201ctrue believer in Britain and this place being British\u201d.<\/p>\n

\u201cI would be absolutely open to it; look, if there\u2019s a discussion on this, I think it would be madness to be complacent about what could happen,\u201d he tells The Irish Times.<\/p>\n

\u201cBut I would want to do everything to avoid it happening.\u201d<\/p>\n

Gildernew, a former Stormont agriculture minister, MLA and party stalwart for 30 years, is scathing in her assessment of the North.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe six counties is a s**thole, that\u2019s the problem … The six counties on their own don\u2019t work, they\u2019ll never work. As an island, we\u2019re better off [united] socially, economically,\u201d she says during a visit with Paisley to Derry\u2019s Cult\u00farlann Centre for the programme.<\/p>\n

Is this an attack on devolution and those heading up Stormont? Gildernew says no.<\/p>\n

She says she \u201cthrew\u201d herself into elected roles at Stormont and Westminster.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s not a criticism of our Government, it\u2019s the place. I don\u2019t think the six counties has ever worked,\u201d she says. \u201cPartition has failed us all, nationalist and republican and unionist and loyalist.<\/p>\n

\u201cI went in, heart and a half, to make that executive work, went in to work on behalf of every farmer, not just in the six counties but I had to take decisions on foot and mouth (disease) that affected farmers right across the island of Ireland.<\/p>\n

\u201cI would never sit back and say, this place is a s**thole and I\u2019m not going to do anything about it, I did my best to work within the parameters I was given.\u201d<\/p>\n

Paisley dismisses her assessment as \u201cappalling\u201d while conceding that \u201cNorthern Ireland isn\u2019t performing to its full potential\u201d.<\/p>\n

\u201cIs the Republic of Ireland performing to its full potential? No,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe duty is to try and fix that. In this debate and coming to it \u2013 and Michelle and me have had those conversations \u2013 I think I have genuinely tried to engage and acknowledge and accept that if I want to make this place thrive, I have to understand my neighbour better, understand what makes them who they are.\u201d<\/p>\n

[\u00a0Respectful talks on new Ireland needed, says DUP founder memberOpens in new window<\/a>\u00a0]<\/p>\n

As the pair pack up to go, it is Gildernew who is more forthcoming about the past year.<\/p>\n

In May, Sinn F\u00e9in ended her paid employment contract with the party, a year after she stood down as an MP to run as a candidate in the Republic for the European Parliament, where she was unsuccessful in her bid to win a seat in the Midlands-North-West constituency.<\/p>\n

She remains a Sinn F\u00e9in \u201cactivist\u201d and member.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt has been quite difficult, there have definitely been challenges. I\u2019m not going to gloss over them,\u201d she says.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s been a fairly rough couple of years but I\u2019ve come out the other side. I\u2019m still a mother. I\u2019m a carer to my husband: Jimmy had a stroke a few years ago.\u201d<\/p>\n

Clutching a gold necklace engraved with Mam\u00f3 around her neck \u2013 she tells Paisley it\u2019s the Irish for grandmother \u2013 she says she loves her new role \u201cthough I\u2019m too young to be called granny\u201d, she adds, laughing.<\/p>\n

Both she and Paisley admit that their political careers forged their identity.<\/p>\n

Paisley\u2019s shock defeat in last year\u2019s UK general election saw him unseated in the Bible belt constituency where he and his late father and DUP founder, Rev Ian Paisley, had between them served as MPs for 54 years.<\/p>\n

A \u201cseismic political earthquake in North Antrim\u201d was how TUV leader Jim Allister described his victory.<\/p>\n

However, Paisley remains tight lipped about the impact of the loss.<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019ve never commented on it since July 4th, 2024, and I\u2019m not doing it today. I am keeping busy.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Behind a glass partition at a BBC studio in Belfast, staff whisper about a feisty on-air exchange earlier…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":109633,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[3412,9,10,23935,4776,18,13,14,6,68314,19,17,11,12,15,16,68313,5,47,7,8],"class_list":{"0":"post-109632","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-headlines","8":"tag-bbc","9":"tag-breaking-news","10":"tag-breakingnews","11":"tag-common-ground","12":"tag-dup-links","13":"tag-eire","14":"tag-featured-news","15":"tag-featurednews","16":"tag-headlines","17":"tag-ian-paisley-jnr","18":"tag-ie","19":"tag-ireland","20":"tag-latest-news","21":"tag-latestnews","22":"tag-main-news","23":"tag-mainnews","24":"tag-michelle-gildernew","25":"tag-news","26":"tag-sinn-fein","27":"tag-top-stories","28":"tag-topstories"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/109632","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=109632"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/109632\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/109633"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=109632"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=109632"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=109632"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}