Main Points <\/p>\n
Best Reads <\/p>\n
And with that, the meeting is over.<\/p>\n
We\u2019re going to wrap up our live story now, thanks for staying with us this evening. <\/p>\n
Mr Yates, in turn, thanks Mr Kelly. <\/p>\n
He also notes that some people have said the two of them should start a podcast. Watch this space. <\/p>\n
Mr Yates said he \u201cdidn\u2019t know what to expect\u201d before attending today\u2019s hearing, adding that some previous Oireachtas committee hearings have been confrontational – citing meetings with former Rehab Group CEO Angela Kerins and former RT\u00c9 presenter Ryan Tubridy in this regard.<\/p>\n
\u201cThis territory is the wild west, as far as I\u2019m concerned,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
Alan Kelly again thanks Mr Yates for appearing before the committee. He said other people were asked to do the same, but turned the committee down.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe do acknowledge the fact that you had the gumption to come in here and others didn\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>\n
Mr Kelly said Mr Yates\u2019s contributions will provide \u201cfood for thought\u201d.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said he is still friends with Noel Kelly, who runs NK Management, the company behind the Path to Power podcast.<\/p>\n
\u201cNoel Kelly is a personal friend of mine, and I\u2019m not going to get into what happened on the Saturday [November 1st; when the Jim Gavin media-training news broke], but all I can say is that he remains a personal friend of mine.\u201d<\/p>\n
Fianna F\u00e1il Senator Alison Comyn, a former journalist, asks Mr Yates if he ever considered himself a journalist. <\/p>\n
He did not, he said.<\/p>\n
\u201cI was never a member of the NUJ [the National Union of Journalists], I never went to journalism school. I actually don\u2019t enjoy the company of journalists. <\/p>\n
\u201cI teach people on the course not to trust journalists.\u201d<\/p>\n
Social Democrats TD Liam Quaide said he disagrees with Mr Yates on many issues, in particular migration and climate change, but that he will be missed from the airwaves.<\/p>\n
Mr Quaide asks Mr Yates about comments made by his former podcast co-host Matt Cooper.<\/p>\n
In an interview with the Irish Independent earlier this month, Mr Cooper said of Mr Yates: \u201cI think there is a psychological thing going back to his bankruptcy. His whole modus operandi since is that he wants to make as much money as he can to put himself in a good financial position \u2026 he doesn\u2019t seem able to turn down anything.”<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said the situation was \u201cnothing to do with my psychological state\u201d.<\/p>\n
He said he was planning to leave the Path to Power podcast in the near future anyway.<\/p>\n
\u201cI\u2019m 40 years married in December, I\u2019d decided to take January and February off way before and I was looking to get off the podcast – because I actually found I was becoming part of the story … and I found that stressful, and I didn\u2019t want to be in that space.\u201d<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said he left The Hard Shoulder on Newstalk and The Tonight Show on Virgin Media when both places wanted him to stay.<\/p>\n
\u201cThey couldn\u2019t believe it. I sometimes get bored easily.\u201d<\/p>\n
When asked for his advice about how legislators should approach this, Mr Yates told Mr Kelly: \u201cWhat you should do is really beyond my pay grade\u201d, before adding \u201cI will respect what you decide to do\u201d. <\/p>\n
Committee chair Alan Kelly is now questioning Ivan Yates.<\/p>\n
The Labour TD said he understands the point Mr Yates made earlier about the difficult nature of regulating podcasts and how this would be enforced.<\/p>\n
\u201cI accept, by the way, in principle, what you\u2019re saying, as regards that this is, I suppose, tricky territory – you can overreach,\u201d Mr Kelly said.<\/p>\n
However, he added that \u201cregulatory change\u201d is needed to ensure transparency for listeners. <\/p>\n
He said legislators need to find \u201ca happy medium\u201d.<\/p>\n
Fianna F\u00e1il TD P\u00e1draig O\u2019Sullivan asks Mr Yates about comments he made on Path to Power about MEP Billy Kelleher, who had expressed a desire to run in the presidential election prior to Jim Gavin being chosen as the party\u2019s candidate.<\/p>\n
In these remarks, Mr Yates said Mr Kelleher \u201cwon\u2019t be president, he won\u2019t be elected\u201d.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said he made these remarks before he had any involvement in Mr Gavin\u2019s campaign, noting that Fianna F\u00e1il contacted him about doing media training around September 23rd.<\/p>\n
The committee is back after a break for a D\u00e1il vote.<\/p>\n
Sinn F\u00e9in TD Thomas Gould said Mr Yates had a \u201cposition of privilege\u201d and should have told listeners about his conflict of interest.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said his job is to give his opinion, not to be a journalist. He said his brand is \u201cright-wing … anti-woke, pro-Trump, whatever it might be\u201d.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said Mr Gould may find some of his views \u201cobnoxious, and I respect that, and that\u2019s where we agree to differ\u201d.<\/p>\n
He continues: \u201cBut please don\u2019t say that I\u2019m this impartial guy … I was never impartial, I was opinion-driven.\u201d<\/p>\n
Fine Gael TD Miche\u00e1l Carrigy is now addressing the committee. He thanks Mr Yates for predicting he would be elected in the November 2024 general election. <\/p>\n
The Longford\u2013Westmeath TD said he listened to this particular podcast episode \u201cevery single night\u201d during the campaign. <\/p>\n
Coming back to matters at hand, Mr Carrigy said that Mr Yates\u2019s \u201csmear the bejaysus\u201d remark was \u201cseized upon\u201d by the Connolly campaign during the presidential election, having a detrimental impact on Fine Gael\u2019s campaign.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said part of the reason Path to Power was popular was because he could give good insights due to his close political connections. <\/p>\n
\u201cIn fact, if I\u2019m guilty of anything, I\u2019m the best back-channeller in the business. I like politicians. I don\u2019t really like journalists,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
Mr Yates said his involvement with a number of companies is public knowledge, citing this article<\/a> by Colm Keena<\/b> which details his business dealings. <\/p>\n Company filings show Mr Yates is a director of four companies: ACSJY, Yewtree Infotainment, Golden Farm Thoroughbreds and Mortimer We Re Back.<\/p>\n Mr Yates questioned why there has been such a focus on him in recent weeks.<\/p>\n \u201cHow come in all of this controversy over two or three weeks, not one other party has come forward with one [media] coach? <\/p>\n \u201cThere\u2019s no coaches, or they\u2019re just all hiding in the undergrowth? Is that credible?\u201d<\/p>\n Social Democrats TD Sin\u00e9ad Gibney asks Mr Yates how many politicians or parties he has provided media training for. Mr Yates refuses to answer, saying he does not discuss his clients.<\/p>\n She takes issue with his phrase that declaring every conflict of interests would be a \u201cmood killer\u201d. <\/p>\n Ms Gibney said there needs to be more transparency in the media sector in general.<\/p>\n \u201cWe are now at a point where broadcasters have a multitude of interests, and journalists, op-ed writers, have multitudes of interests that are simply not available to readers, not available to viewers.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd we do not have a regulatory framework, as of yet, to enforce anything around that.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Brennan said Mr Yates was \u201cpouring fuel on the fire\u201d of online discourse with his \u201csmear the bejaysus\u201d remark during the presidential election.<\/p>\n Mr Yates said he regrets \u201cthe impact that phrase had on the whole campaign\u201d, accusing the Connolly campaign of \u201cweaponising\u201d his comments.<\/p>\n However, he said he\u2019s not sure if it impacted the overall outcome of the election as Catherine Connolly won by such a landslide.<\/p>\n Who had a mention of Troy Parrott on their committee bingo card? <\/p>\n Fine Gael TD Brian Brennan has compared Mr Yates giving media training to politicians and then discussing them in the media to someone training Troy Parrott and then refereeing a football match he is playing in. <\/p>\n Mr Yates doesn\u2019t see the connection.<\/p>\n Sinn F\u00e9in TD Joanne Byrne asks Mr Yates if he regrets saying Fine Gael should \u201csmear the bejaysus\u201d out of Catherine Connolly during the presidential election.<\/p>\n He said he doesn\u2019t necessarily regret the remark itself, but regrets how it was used by the Connolly campaign and the impact it had on Heather Humphreys\u2019s campaign.<\/p>\n Fianna F\u00e1il TD Malcolm Byrne asks Mr Yates if the public should have been made aware that he worked with Ceann Comhairle Verona Murphy.<\/p>\n Mr Yates hosted the launch for Ms Murphy\u2019s Wexford Independent Alliance grouping in March 2024 and has praised her publicly. <\/p>\n During this back and forth, Mr Yates said he would work with anybody.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019m freelance,\u201d he said, quickly adding \u201cbut not free\u201d. <\/p>\n Senator Evanne N\u00ed Chuilin, a former sports broadcaster with RT\u00c9, said that members of the public may not be aware of the nuances of media training in the same way politicians or journalists are. <\/p>\n She asks Mr Yates about his views on the need to regulate podcasts.<\/p>\n Mr Yates questioned how this could be done, noting that Irish podcasts compete with international ones.<\/p>\n He said it\u2019s a good thing that podcasts are often more informal than mainstream media. <\/p>\n He noted that, on Path to Power, he would call the committee\u2019s chairperson, Alan Kenny, AK47 (a widely-used nickname for the Labour TD) because it is \u201ccolloquial\u201d. <\/p>\n \u201cThat\u2019s a different language, and it\u2019s more gossipy, and people love it, and it\u2019s, just, it\u2019s less PC.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Yates said that bringing in more regulations for podcasts could be a slippery slope, as some politicians might unfairly target podcasts they don\u2019t like or podcast hosts whose views they disagree with. He said such a scenario would be \u201coutrageous\u201d.<\/p>\n He said it\u2019s also hard to define what a current affairs podcast is.<\/p>\n \u201cIs the The 2 Johnnies podcast a current affairs podcast? It might be, if I was on it.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Yates said that giving training to Government ministers did not impact the type of commentary he gave on the podcast or in other media interviews. He said he has often been critical of Government policies on housing and other issues.<\/p>\n When asked if he regretted not telling his former podcast co-host Matt Cooper about his role in media training Jim Gavin while commenting on the presidential election, Mr Yates said:<\/p>\n \u201cI reflected on that, and on the particular morning where this blew up, on the Saturday morning, I said to Matt, \u2018I deliberately didn\u2019t tell you, because I didn\u2019t want you to be in any way conflicted\u2019. <\/p>\n \u201cIn other words, he could say, \u2018Oh, I never knew any of this\u2019, and it was a statement of fact. <\/p>\n \u201cIf I had said, confidentially, Matt, \u2018This is something I do\u2019, it would have put him in a very invidious position. So I didn\u2019t put NK Productions (who made Path to Power) or him in that situation. And I felt that was fair to them. <\/p>\n \u201cI took it upon myself. I took full responsibility for myself, and I took those decisions, knowingly and in real time.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Ahearn asks Mr Yates if he sees a conflict of interest in the fact he gave media training to Housing Minister James Browne and people working in the housing and construction industry while he himself discusses housing issues in the media.<\/p>\n Mr Yates doesn\u2019t think there is.<\/p>\n He said he trains people from a range of backgrounds and, regardless of who they are, when they come to him, he has the same approach.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019d say, just tell me what your message is, and I\u2019ll tell you to do it in two sentences instead of six, to be memorable, to be impactful, maybe to be witty, but also to connect with people.\u201d<\/p>\n The first question asked of Mr Yates, by Fine Gael Senator Garret Ahearn, is whether or not he received training ahead of his appearance today.<\/p>\n \u201cNo, I\u2019m self trained,\u201d Mr Yates said in reply. <\/p>\n Mr Yates said he understands there have been \u201cdifficulties with the RT\u00c9 register in the context of the DPC [Data Protection Commissioner] and GDPR [General Data Protection Regulation]\u201d. <\/p>\n \u201cTo extend this on a statutory basis to all broadcasters and podcasters would have severe consequences. Instead of controlling \u2018hate speech\u2019, we could limit \u2018free speech\u2019.<\/p>\n \u201cThe reality is that people who express strong opinions on topics such as migration, Trump, the woke agenda and the nanny state don\u2019t conform to a mainstream media consensus. <\/p>\n \u201cA sanitised \u2018politically correct\u2019 media limits the national conversation. It could widen the gap between ordinary people and the \u2018belt way\u2019. <\/p>\n \u201cA national echo chamber is one of the greatest drivers of alternative media.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cI want to say just a few words on understanding conflicts,\u201d Mr Yates said.<\/p>\n \u201cI believe my predictions and punditry during elections were based solely on being as accurate and informative as possible. And I don\u2019t believe any training role altered the way I saw the election unfolding or the performance of the various candidates.<\/p>\n \u201cThere are all sorts of conflicts across every walk of life, relationships, friendships, political, shared experiences, financial. Can we police them all?<\/p>\n \u201cDo we want to drown our legacy media in more and more onerous regulations, rules and protocols or do we want to trust people to manage reasonable situations reasonably, and to trust their audiences to make up their own mind.<\/p>\n \u201cFinally, as regards this committee\u2019s consideration of future legislation, regulation and policy of the media, I note you are deliberating over the Broadcasting Bill 2025 and inter alia, the establishment of a Register of Interests. In all roles, I will of course abide by prevailing regulations.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Yates continues: \u201cAside from my podcasting, controversy has arisen about my broadcasting roles and remarks during recent months of the presidential election. <\/p>\n \u201cYou will be aware that Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n is presently conducting a review into these matters with both RT\u00c9 and Newstalk. Matters pertaining to the operation and implementation of their code are properly being processed there.<\/p>\n \u201cI do not believe it is the function of this committee to carry out a parallel investigation or prejudice the outcome of this due process. I don\u2019t propose this evening to give further answers to my perspectives on these matters other than a lengthy interview I had with David McCullagh on RTE\u2019s Today programme on November 10th.<\/p>\n \u201cI am available to meet with the Commission if they desire it. As always, it is open to any member of the public who believes that I have not acted with fairness and objectivity, to lodge an objection with the Commission.\u201d<\/p>\n Yates tells the committee he is also a founding co-host of the Path to Power podcast alongside Matt Cooper (where he worked from December 2023 to October 2025).<\/p>\n \u201cPodcasts hold a very important space in the media ecosystem, and a major part of their attraction is that they take a looser, less cautious, more contrarian approach to issues and allow voices to be heard that are increasingly hard to hear in the so-called mainstream media.<\/p>\n \u201cIn the case of Path to Power, I don\u2019t think that anybody was tuning in to hear two versions of Matt Cooper. The contrast between the styles and approaches of Matt on the one hand and myself on the other that was a major attraction for listeners or viewers. <\/p>\n \u201cI approached issues from a very different perspective – with deep political experience and connections and with relationships across the parties and with a real-world experience of both the economy and politics. <\/p>\n \u201cThis was part of the attraction.<\/p>\n \u201cA guaranteed mood-killer in that environment would have been if we had been forced to preface every debate with a disclaimer or a declaration of interests. Thankfully we did not and I hope that burden is never placed on podcasters.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Yates noted that his LinkedIn profile refers to his media training and that \u201cmost people know that I am a former politician\u201d. <\/p>\n \u201cSo, it hardly requires an enormous leap of imagination to think that I might have combined these interests at some point.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd while I have always kept the identity of my training clients confidential, my work with Fianna Fail politicians has been written about before.<\/p>\n \u201cIn 2022, for example, John Drennan of the Irish Daily Mail wrote about it \u2013 without any input from me, I might add, and without much interest from anyone afterwards to be honest.<\/p>\n \u201cMedia training is something I have been doing for about four years. But, importantly, I was not doing it in any way when I was a full-time broadcaster with Newstalk Radio for about a decade between 2009 and 2020.\u201d<\/p>\n Yates said he is no longer a full-time broadcaster, noting he left that role in July 2020.<\/p>\n Mr Yates is now delivering his opening statement.<\/p>\n He thanked the committee\u2019s chairperson, Labour\u2019s Alan Kelly, and said he is \u201cvery happy to be here\u201d.<\/p>\n \u201cI understand that you invited a number of people who train politicians for media engagements to come along but that I\u2019m the only one that agreed to come. That\u2019s a pity because we would benefit from hearing various perspectives on these issues,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019m still flabbergasted at the volume of attention which has focused on my media training activities over the past three weeks. Media training has been a small element of my commercial activities over the past number of years. <\/p>\n \u201cAnd media training for politicians has been even smaller but in the last few weeks, it seems to have assumed an enormous importance. And to be honest, I\u2019m surprised at the level of surprise that my work in this area has generated.\u201d<\/p>\n Aoife MacEvilly, commissioner for broadcasting at Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, earlier today told the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Media that the onus is on broadcasters and media outlets to ensure there is transparency around such issues.<\/p>\n In a general sense, Ms MacEvilly said the broadcasting code applies to broadcasters rather than individuals<\/a>, Ian Curran<\/b> reports.<\/p>\n The onus is on them to have \u201cmeasures in place to ensure that they can be aware\u201d of their contributors\u2019 interests \u2013 \u201cwhether personal, financial or otherwise\u201d \u2013 that could conflict with the fairness or impartiality of their programming.<\/p>\n \u201cI think the expectation for audiences is that the broadcaster would indicate if there is an interest or the reason that somebody has been brought on to comment on a particular topic, that is relevant to that,\u201d Ms MacEvilly said.<\/p>\n On his podcast work, Mr Yates will say \u201ca major part of their [podcasts] attraction is that they take a looser, less cautious, more contrarian approach to issues and allow voices to be heard that are increasingly hard to hear in the so-called mainstream media\u201d.<\/p>\n The statement adds: \u201cA guaranteed mood-killer in that environment would have been if we had been forced to preface every debate with a disclaimer or a declaration of interests.\u201d<\/p>\n In his opening statement, due to be delivered around 6.30pm, Mr Yates will say that media training has been \u201ca small element of my commercial activities over the past number of years\u201d and training for politicians has been \u201ceven smaller\u201d.<\/p>\n He will add: \u201cTo be honest, I\u2019m surprised at the level of surprise that my work in this area has generated.\u201d<\/p>\n Mr Yates will say \u201cwhile I have always kept the identity of my training clients confidential, my work with Fianna F\u00e1il politicians has been written about before\u201d.<\/p>\n According to his opening statement, he will say that he has done media training work for about four years, before adding: \u201cImportantly I was NOT doing it in any way when I was a full-time broadcaster with Newstalk Radio for about a decade between 2009 and 2020.\u201d<\/p>\n Representatives of Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n (the Media Commission) appeared at the committee separately earlier today<\/a>.<\/p>\n Ireland\u2019s broadcasting code places the onus on broadcasters and media outlets to ensure there is transparency around the political and business interests of panellists and pundits appearing on their programmes, the media regulator said.<\/p>\n Pundit and former politician Ivan Yates<\/a> is due to appear at the Oireachtas Media Committee on Wednesday evening.<\/p>\n He will tell TDs and Senators he is \u201cflabbergasted\u201d at the amount of attention on his media training activities and will defend his work, stating he has \u201calways acted in good faith\u201d in various roles.<\/p>\n Mr Yates has been at the centre of controversy for working as a political commentator during the presidential election campaign after providing media training to Fianna F\u00e1il candidate Jim Gavin, an involvement he never disclosed.<\/p>\n His role as a co-presenter on Path to Power ended earlier this month<\/a> after it emerged he had trained Mr Gavin.<\/p>\n