![\"Sasha](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Sasha-Gordon-Portrait-1-scaled.jpg\")
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Sasha Gordon, photographed by Jason Schmidt. Courtesy Matthew Brown and David Zwirner<\/p>\n
Last week, when Lucy Liu<\/a> met the painter Sasha Gordon<\/a> for the first time on Zoom, she opened with a bold declaration: \u201cYou\u2019re just delicious.\u201d Gordon, caught off guard, broke into a bashful giggle. Despite having been recently turboshot into art world stardom, the 27-year-old artist maintains a tumultuous relationship with her reflection, one she continues to reproduce in her saturated and warped self-portraits. Gordon often paints herself as anxious and erotic, allowing her to maintain control over her own narrative. Liu, who\u2019s spent decades navigating the vagaries of the entertainment industry, knows the drill: to exist as an image is to risk being consumed by it. In Haze<\/a>, a new solo exhibition opening at David Zwirner next week, Gordon places her alter-ego at the center of tense and unnerving plots. But each piece, nevertheless, maintains her trademark injections of humor and wit. In conversation, the two artists went deep on tokenization, death, and surviving the spotlight.\u2014EMILY SANDSTROM\u00a0<\/p>\n \u2014\u2014\u2014<\/p>\n LUCY LIU: It looks like you\u2019re in your studio.<\/p>\n SASHA GORDON: I am. I slept here.<\/p>\n LIU: Oh, you did? That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n GORDON: Is it?<\/p>\n LIU: I have a studio too, but they come by intermittently to check to see if we\u2019re sleeping in there because we\u2019re not allowed to.<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah, that\u2019s what I\u2019ve heard. I mean, I bet there\u2019s people in my building who do that, but the maintenance guys leave at four, so it\u2019s a free-for-all after that.<\/p>\n LIU: Well, it\u2019s so wonderful to speak to you. I was surprised that you wanted to chat to me. I was so honored.<\/p>\n GORDON: I\u2019m so honored to speak to you right now.<\/p>\n LIU: You\u2019re incredibly talented and you\u2019re beautiful and so sexy. Tell me about all the sexiness happening.<\/p>\n GORDON: [Laughs] What do you mean?!<\/p>\n LIU: All of it. I mean, your personality is graphically detailed onto your work itself, but I think your personality when you\u2019re photographed really shows you\u2019re just delicious.<\/p>\n Flame Like a Bush (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh my god.<\/p>\n LIU: Do you see that for yourself?\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: First of all, it\u2019s so crazy that you\u2019re saying that.<\/p>\n LIU: I really believe it. I don\u2019t say things without being honest.<\/p>\n GORDON: Thank you so much. I mean, I always used to be scared of showing my full personality when I was younger, but I feel like as I\u2019ve become more comfortable with myself, I\u2019ve become this bubbly and attitudey person. I just wanted that to come through my paintings, instead of doing these very still portraits. I wanted to capture that essence I have.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: Do you feel like you didn\u2019t have the ability to talk about it or express yourself when you were younger?<\/p>\n GORDON: Yes. I grew up upstate and went to a very sports-centered high school. So trying to find something that I enjoyed but also could find comfort in was challenging, because the arts program wasn\u2019t that appreciated. But my mom would take me to these art classes outside of my town and I just was so obsessed with painting.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: Wow. And you felt like your mother really saw you and was able to expand what she saw that you felt?\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: Yes.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: That\u2019s amazing. To see something that somebody feels is honestly a great gift.<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah. My mom is the person I\u2019m the closest to. I mean, I think the reason she put me in classes was that I was drawing in my children\u2019s books, just little circles over and over again. I was just so obsessive, and she just thought I needed another outlet.<\/p>\n LIU: How old were you when you started drawing those circles?<\/p>\n GORDON: That was when I was a toddler, I think.<\/p>\n LIU: So Good Night Moon is all destroyed?\u00a0<\/p>\n It Was Still Far Away (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n GORDON: [Laughs] Yeah, all destroyed. But yeah, she put me in classes I think in kindergarten and I started oil painting in third grade.<\/p>\n LIU: Wow. That\u2019s very expansive for a third grader. I wanted to ask, do you feel scared about anything in particular in your life?\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: Scared? I mean, I was scared yesterday. I was scared this morning. Paintings, even as detailed and as precious as I treat them, I\u2019ve realized I can\u2019t treat them like that in my brain because things are always going to change. I\u2019m just a very anxious person, and I paint about my anxieties and ambiguity. I just never know what to expect. Nothing\u2019s ever a solid solution or a right answer. So that keeps me on my toes for sure. Death also scares me.<\/p>\n LIU: What about death? Is it the expulsion of your corporal being? Is it the fear of losing your connections or your relationships?<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah, the idea of the whole world going away and also spending so much time in a body that I\u2019ve had such a confusing and such a tumultuous relationship with, and that it would just feel insane to leave it.<\/p>\n LIU: [Dog jumps on her lap]<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh, my god. What\u2019s their name?<\/p>\n LIU: His name is Kaji. He\u2019s a foster that we adopted. He was in a kill shelter situation. There\u2019s a lot of pounding around me, so he\u2019s feeling a little insecure.<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh, no worries.<\/p>\n LIU: But he understands what death is as well. He\u2019s been very close to it.<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh my God. I can\u2019t imagine.<\/p>\n LIU: Do you think that you explore that fear in your work? Or do you feel that it\u2019s more like, you take it and you create this comedic or misrepresented tone in order to diagnose and to heal yourself?<\/p>\n It Was Still Far Away (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n GORDON: I think it\u2019s a bit of both. There\u2019s definitely this feeling of impending doom or fear of what\u2019s going to happen next, or the endless possibilities of what could happen. And this show in particular, there\u2019s a bit more of showing the limits of how far the body can go. There\u2019s a part where there\u2019s this hazing process of one of the main characters in the series, so it\u2019s sort of dealing with being on the brink of death, which I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve done so directly.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: Do you always work in a narrative format? Or do you sort of feel like sometimes it\u2019s a one-off and it\u2019s okay that it doesn\u2019t necessarily speak to the rest of the story because you\u2019re still the center point?<\/p>\n GORDON: I mean, usually it\u2019s a one-off situation. I almost get annoyed when I have to come up with a press release and theme for a show, because I just want to make stuff that comes out and I don\u2019t want to think too hard about it. But it comes together by the end because it\u2019s still all from my subconscious that is still all tied together. With this show, I wanted to try almost one ambiguous narrative, but I think each work can still be taken on their own. Also things can be seen out of order, even if there is a particular order in my brain, which I think is fun. There\u2019s not really a proper ending or way of solution.<\/p>\n LIU: I love that. I think there\u2019s so much courage in your work because you put so much of yourself into it. It\u2019s interesting when you start to monetize it. How do you work on something that\u2019s intimate and then you release it into the world and then it sells or doesn\u2019t sell? And once it starts to sell, does it almost corrupt how you work?\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: I mean, I probably think about it once a day, but I really try to not let it impact my ideas or way of painting. I actually kind of think back on when I was younger, when I didn\u2019t have Instagram and when I wasn\u2019t selling work. It was just such a pure form of expression for me. Now I almost feel like Instagram is what I think about more, because it\u2019s just what I have access to every day. But for this show, I really haven\u2019t posted that much and it\u2019s been kind of very freeing. I\u2019m almost more scared to show the work now, because it\u2019s almost like being pregnant with something and then giving birth to it years later.<\/p>\n LIU: It\u2019s a beautiful thing.<\/p>\n GORDON: I think it just doesn\u2019t hit me until two weeks before the show, which is basically now, but it\u2019s exciting.<\/p>\n LIU: I\u2019m proud of you.<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh, thank you.<\/p>\n LIU: Really. You grew up in a time where technology is so different from when I grew up. And the accessibility to visual images and opinions can really inundate a person\u2019s mind. Do you feel that it is something that you live and breathe, or do you think you can step away from it as a way to disconnect?\u00a0<\/p>\n It Was Still Far Away (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n GORDON: I mean, I do have to step away every now and then. I think I\u2019m very affected by whatever\u2019s around me. I feel like I could join a cult, you know what I mean? So I do have to take time away, especially with visual things. I look at art a lot, but the reason it probably isn\u2019t best for me is that I feel like it might just impact my work a little too much. Obviously everyone\u2019s influenced by other artists, but I think I get scared I\u2019ll look at someone\u2019s work and subconsciously be inspired. I try not to go crazy. I\u2019m more of a TikTok person right now.<\/p>\n LIU: You\u2019re doing all the dance moves in your studio?<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh my god, no. I could never. I used to, but\u2013<\/p>\n LIU: So cute.<\/p>\n GORDON: It\u2019s just more that I need an escape from seeing people I kind of know or art world stuff. There\u2019s been periods of my life when I was super affected by it. In college I wasn\u2019t even Instagram famous, but there were other students who knew who I was before getting into the school, and it really freaked me out.<\/p>\n LIU: That\u2019s a lot of pressure.<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah. It just felt like a lot of eyes on me, which I was not used to.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: How do you feel now knowing there are so many eyes on you? Do you feel more insular because of it? Or more careful about how you have to appear or present?<\/p>\n GORDON: I think that\u2019s in the back of my mind. Again, I try to not think too hard about things. I think a lot of the time things happen to me and I kind of just don\u2019t let myself fully register it, or else I think I would just spiral and go into hiding. I do have a lot of pressure, but I also like to be challenged. It is challenging me to make my work better and have it evolve, but it is scary to know that the audience is so much wider than it was before. And the bigger the audience, the more opinions. I just have to let certain things go and not read all the comments and whatnot.<\/p>\n LIU: At your openings, do you find it to be sort of joyous, but overwhelming? Is there closure, or do you feel like you can\u2019t wait to get in your pajamas?\u00a0 Whores in the Attic (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n GORDON: Oh my god, yeah. A bit of everything. This is definitely the hardest I\u2019ve worked in a long time. I\u2019ve had crazy deadlines and I\u2019ve almost quit. Or shit will just hit the fan. But this is a very intense show, for sure. When I go to the openings, I definitely feel a bit frazzled, because I\u2019m just like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe people are excited to see this.\u201d Like in reality when I\u2019m making the paintings I\u2019m just chain smoking and taking naps to dissociate. It\u2019s really funny to see people being so supportive.<\/p>\n LIU: I wanted to ask you, how well do you know your body when you\u2019re painting that you don\u2019t need to look at yourself in that position when you\u2019re painting? How do you translate yourself visually on a canvas that\u2019s obviously disproportionate to reality? And do you draw first?\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: For drawings or smaller paintings I just kind of wing it from memory, because I\u2019ve just done it so many times. And also just growing up and being so obsessive with how my body looks and how it\u2019s always changing, it\u2019s just like I know\u2026 Well, it\u2019s funny because I know what it looks like, but I also don\u2019t know what it actually looks like. I\u2019ve basically been studying and analyzing my own body for years and years, but I still use photo references for the bigger paintings just because I really want the lighting to be as solidified as possible. I want them to be sculptural.<\/p>\n LIU: And is there honesty with the lighting?<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah. I\u2019m not following exactly what the photo is showing me, it\u2019s just to make sure that things look voluptuous and rounded. I want things to feel set where they really are in the setting of the painting. That\u2019s kind of what grounds the paintings for me, just how heavy and smooth the figures look. But I have tattoos on my arms and stuff, and sometimes it\u2019s hard to paint like a crease on my arm because there\u2019s a tattoo there. But it\u2019s funny, I\u2019m only 27 but I can already tell things are changing and it\u2019s cool to document it. I\u2019m interested to see what it\u2019ll look like as I age.<\/p>\n It Was Still Far Away (in progress), 2024. \u00a9 Sasha Gordon. Courtesy the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n LIU: Who you are now at 27, when I look at your work, I see you. That woman looking at me with confidence, with absolution in her body, feeling herself, feeling her feet, being embodied in your own body essentially\u2026 It\u2019s unapologetic. Is that something you were discovering at a young age, and did you paint yourself to feel more empowered in your body?<\/p>\n GORDON: Absolutely. I entered college and thought, \u201cOkay, I can paint really realistically.\u201d And then a bunch of professors were just like, \u201cYou\u2019re not really painting about anything.\u201d I mean, I think some people\u2019s art who paint about nothing is amazing. But it just wasn\u2019t me, and they could tell. So I really forced myself to think of what I wanted the work to be about and look like. At that time, I was still really insecure because I had just come from my hometown, which was not horrible, it\u2019s just that it was really not diverse. I just didn\u2019t connect really with anyone besides a few, and I had a lot of resentment toward my peers in school. I think being mixed\u2013because my dad\u2019s white and my mom\u2019s Korean, I think my mom said I was white on the census or something. And I was like, \u201cWait, what?! So I guess I\u2019m white now?\u201d<\/p>\n LIU: Check! Caucasian.\u00a0<\/p>\n GORDON: Yeah. I was just very, very disoriented and resentful because everyone seemed so comfortable and everyone was from a similar background. I only knew of my mom and truly just you and Charlie\u2019s Angels and Kill Bill. I was really alone. But once I got to RISD, I was way more comfortable exploring my identity and my queerness. And I think that was a very important part of my practice. But now as I\u2019m out of school and I\u2019m in New York, I\u2019m way more comfortable and I have my groundings. It\u2019s also made me realize I want to explore other things in painting. Especially because there are these periods where they were kind of grouping Asian artists together, and also Black artists together, and it felt very tokenizing. But I want my work to look like me because I want to see that more. But it\u2019s just because I exist. It\u2019s not like I just want to paint Asian women, it\u2019s just who I am. Although it\u2019s kind of transformed. It\u2019s more about ambiguity and I think a lot of the psychological effects of my developing years growing up.<\/p>\n Courtesy of the artist and David Zwirner, New York.<\/p>\n LIU: That makes sense. A lot of times I get, \u201cOh, you play such confident characters and these badass action heroes,\u201d but obviously there\u2019s so much more to what\u2019s on the screen. It\u2019s like, whatever we\u2019re doing and however we\u2019re doing it, it becomes tokenized because that\u2019s what they see. It\u2019s funny because when they reached out and asked if I wanted to do this interview, I assumed they paired us together because we\u2019re both Asian. You know what I\u2019m saying? But actually it sounds like you actually did want to speak with me. But was it you or was it some other person?<\/p>\n GORDON: No, it was me.<\/p>\n LIU: Oh, I was really curious and I\u2019m so happy and relieved to hear that.<\/p>\n GORDON: No, no, no. I\u2019m a huge fan. And it\u2019s very surreal to be talking to you.\u00a0<\/p>\n LIU: I would love to come and see your studio. We can do that offline.<\/p>\n GORDON: Yes, for sure.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t![\"Sasha](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/IMG_4533-scaled.jpeg\")
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