{"id":481842,"date":"2026-05-13T02:21:20","date_gmt":"2026-05-13T02:21:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/481842\/"},"modified":"2026-05-13T02:21:20","modified_gmt":"2026-05-13T02:21:20","slug":"sheep-detectives-writer-craig-mazin-talks-babe-the-last-of-us","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/481842\/","title":{"rendered":"Sheep Detectives Writer Craig Mazin Talks Babe, The Last of Us"},"content":{"rendered":"

\n\tCraig Mazin<\/a> says he knows what you\u2019re thinking: \u201cThe Chernobyl<\/a> and The Last of Us<\/a> guy wrote a broad comedy mystery about talking farm animals? OK.\u201d Well, Mazin\u2019s comedy roots run deep. Also, we contain multitudes. <\/p>\n

\n\tThe Sheep Detectives, Mazin\u2019s adaptation of Leonie Swann\u2019s Three Bags Full, has been a passion project of his for the better part of two decades. And now that results are finally out in theaters \u2014 the feature includes an impressive cast on-camera (Hugh Jackman, Emma Thompson, Hong Chau) and voicing sheep (Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Brett Goldstein, Regina Hall) \u2014 he seems a little nostalgic. \u201cI feel like this is the one where I finally figured it out,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n

\n\tDuring a recent episode of The Hollywood Reporter podcast I\u2019m Having an Episode (Spotify<\/a>, Amazon Music<\/a>, Apple<\/a>), Mazin spoke about taking inspiration from Babe, script doctoring, his love of competence porn and why he believes the upcoming third season of The Last of Us will have its viewers reexamining their previous takes on the show.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tYou wrote the original The Sheep Detectives<\/a> script 10 years ago. How much does a project change in a decade? And are there points where you think, \u201cWhy am I still working on this?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThis one took, weirdly, even longer. I first got the book from our producer, Lindsay Doran, 19 years ago. It took her nine to unwind the rights. Then set it up at a studio and I wrote a script about 10 years ago. That script is basically the movie. I\u2019ve done a little bit of revising, not much. But the studio was like, \u201cThis isn\u2019t just a purely goofy movie. There\u2019s like there\u2019s a lot more going on here. And we\u2019re not really sure we want to be in that business.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tAlmost a decade later, someone did.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tCourtenay Valenti, who is now running [Amazon] MGM, always loved it, always thought there was something valuable to the idea of a family movie that seemed like a silly talking animal movie and turns out to be much more moving. She bought it from the other studio and it went from just sort of sitting there to releasing it with the most amazing cast I think I\u2019ll ever be associated with.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe Craig Mazin who wrote this was still very much known for writing comedy. With Chernobyl and The Last of Us, you\u2019ve really pivoted to the death and murder guy.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tWhy must I go to extremes? Actually, this is the thing that came in between. I was starting to segue from one genre to another. It is funny now to talk to people where they\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t understand how the Chernobyl and The Last of Us guy could do this.\u201d You know, the very first thing I ever did 30 years ago was a children\u2019s movie [Rocket Man] at Disney. I think I\u2019ve written in every genre. And, obviously, there\u2019s a lot of things I write that my name is not on. But this movie is probably the nearest and dearest to my heart, because I feel like this is the one where I finally figured it out.<\/p>\n

\n\tYou have a reputation for being a really strong script doctor. So there are many, many films you\u2019ve worked on that don\u2019t have your name on them. Can you demystify that a bit for me, because a big part of your career has been done in the dark?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tYou know that there have been projects over time where a studio has gone through 30 different writers and no one, especially the studios, wants to see \u201cwritten by\u201d and then 30 names. It looks bad. It\u2019s not good for us either. There\u2019s a reason that we limit the credits. Most of the time when I\u2019m doing these kinds of jobs, it\u2019s to either help something get a green light\u2026 or it has gotten a green light and then a movie star or producer says, \u201cLet\u2019s bring in somebody to just help with the first act or fix this character or do a thing. I don\u2019t do it with any expectation of credit and I quite typically don\u2019t ask for it. They pay you pretty well and you get to work with some great people. They\u2019re like one-night stands, creatively.<\/p>\n

\n\tFrom what I\u2019ve read and heard, you wanted to cast as wide of a net as possible with this movie. How do you do that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tOur goal was always Babe, which is what I would call the last realist talking animal movie that was special \u2014 that wasn\u2019t just, you know, talking animals. And that\u2019s what we aimed to do. And I remember the Babe was so surprising. I saw a Babe in the theaters and I was in my 20s.<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\tHugh Jackman in \u2018The Sheep Detectives.\u2019<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Amazon MGM Studios<\/p>\n

\n\tWe all did. It\u2019s kind of wild how big Babe was.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tWe all saw a Babe, because we heard it was special. When they talk about, \u201cWho\u2019s this movie for? What\u2019s the audience for this film?\u201d I think the audience for Babe is humans. The audience that we were aiming for is humans. And it is interesting that, yes, death-and-despair Craig wrote this. But do you remember who wrote Babe? George Miller. Mad Max George Miller. Sometimes, you gotta go to that guy for a talking animal movie.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe book you\u2019ve adapted this from, Three Bags Full, has such a fantastic title. I understand why that was not chosen for the film, but can you talk to me about the naming discussion?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tIt\u2019s always Three Bags Full to me. Every script I wrote, the title page said Three Bags Full. When it was time to actually put the movie out there in the world, these titles are very frequently changed by studios. Marketing, specifically, has a lot to weigh in on that. And I don\u2019t mind. On one hand, it\u2019s a very silly title. On the other hand, it tells you exactly what the movie\u2019s about \u2014 which is helpful!<\/p>\n

\n\tWhat are some tropes you see in movies and TV that you\u2019d love a moratorium on?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tI\u2019d love a moratorium on the whole idea of tropes. (Laughs.) Here\u2019s a trope: vampires. There\u2019s a point, like, \u201cMy God, how many things about vampires have there been?\u201d Then Sinners came along, and they\u2019re vampires, but it\u2019s not about vampires. I make a show about zombies. It\u2019s not about zombies. As long as there\u2019s something honest underneath it all, I\u2019m open to anything. Like, I love John Wick. What John Wick does beautifully is something I call competence porn. We just love watching people who are awesome at what they do. And they do it in ways that other people have not.<\/p>\n

\n\tWhat are some other good examples of competence porn?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThe entire Jason Bourne film series is confidence porn. Maybe the best screenplay I\u2019ve ever seen on screen is Unforgiven. The entire movie, people just keep talking about how Clint Eastwood\u2019s character, William Munny, was the most incredible murderer the West has ever seen. He\u2019s just an old broken-down guy who doesn\u2019t seem very good at anything, gets his ass kicked, gets a fever, almost dies. Then, at the very end, he rides into town and does it. That is its own kind of release.<\/p>\n

\n\tYou famously told David Benioff and Dan Weiss, upon seeing the original unaired pilot for Game of Thrones, that they had a \u201cmassive problem.\u201d And everyone is aware that the version we got is an almost completely different episode of television. When in your career has someone said something like that to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tI say it to myself constantly. I have this thing where I want to run toward bad news. I think it\u2019s because I come out of comedy. And comedy is brutal because the audience will tell you with their silence, you have a massive problem. You become like firemen running into burning buildings rather than sort of celebrating what you have. In drama, you can theoretically sit in an audience and say, \u201cI\u2019ve made this beautiful work of art and it is my expression. And if these people don\u2019t get it, it\u2019s their fault, it\u2019s not mine.\u201d In comedy, no one gives a damn. You have to embrace the crucible of feedback.<\/p>\n

\n\tI\u2019m paraphrasing, but you\u2019ve said something to the effect that critics never really get comedies. Why do you think there is a greater divide?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tWell, to start with, critics don\u2019t give comedy its due. And it is the hardest thing to do. Best picture at the Academy Awards should only be comedies as far as I\u2019m concerned. It\u2019s just understood that best picture of the year goes to something very serious. That\u2019s that. It\u2019s so much harder to write Scary Movie 3 than it is to write Chernobyl. And I know this from personal experience. (Laughs.) I also think people get into film criticism because of their love of comedy.<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\tKaitlyn Dever and Pedro Pascal in \u2018The Last of Us\u2019<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of HBO<\/p>\n

\n\tYou cater to two different audiences with The Last of Us: people with this deep relationship with the video game and others, like me, who watched the first episode and assumed \u201cOh, I\u2019m signing up to watch a five-season series with my friends, Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal.\u201d That\u2019s not what they\u2019re getting. So does your awareness of those two camps impact the writing and execution of a season like the one that\u2019s coming up <\/a>and focuses on Kaitlyn Dever?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tWell, it wasn\u2019t like season two wasn\u2019t a departure. We knew what we were doing there, and what I love about that story is that you are denied your heroes and you\u2019re denied your villains. What you are forced to reconcile with is that the people that you care about and root for are not good all the time. It is a question of perspective and narrative. It\u2019s a very powerful thing to be given a story that gives you a hero and that makes your side good. That is fundamental to most religions \u2014 and it is fundamental to most politics now. It creates a tribalism. It\u2019s \u201cus versus them,\u201d and it happens very, very quickly. What I loved about the story of the game, which is in line with what I am pursuing on the show, is that it is not that simple.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe answer to conflict, tribalism and to the alienation of one group from another, you can say empathy. But going about showing empathy is hard, especially when you\u2019re talking about empathizing with somebody who has hurt you personally, taken something from you, caused you grief. There\u2019s a reasonable argument to be made that you should not be extending a hand to somebody who has hurt you or hurt somebody you love. And easier said than done. So this is about exploring that. What I know that we have is Kaitlyn Dever. She is the kind of actor that you find yourself aligning with and rooting for almost instantly.<\/p>\n

\n\tSpeaking of tribalism, a very funny trivia fact about you is that your freshman year roommate in college was Ted Cruz. I only bring this up because, when those catastrophic storms were happening in Texas and he left for Cancun, one of the headlines was \u201cTed Cruz Invited His College Roommate to Mexico Trip He Blamed on His Daughters.<\/a>\u201d My instant reaction was, \u201cMaybe I don\u2019t know Craig Mazin as well as I thought I did\u2026\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tIt wasn\u2019t me! Different guy. And I know who that was. I\u2019m so glad you said \u201cfreshman year roommate,\u201d as in\u2026 I got assigned. I didn\u2019t pick this guy. I just got a little form in the mail that said, \u201cYour roommate\u2019s going to be Rafael Edward Cruz. I was very excited until I met him. And then I wasn\u2019t. Hey, there\u2019s a guy that unites everyone. Everyone hates him \u2014 Republicans, Democrats. Everyone agrees he stinks.<\/p>\n

\n\tI was very fortunate with my freshman year assignment, but I do believe having to live with randos ultimately makes you a higher-functioning adult.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tBecause I\u2019m old, I like the phrase \u201ccharacter building.\u201d And it does build character. You can survive these things. I survived Ted Cruz for a year. If I could do that, I can do anything.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Craig Mazin says he knows what you\u2019re thinking: \u201cThe Chernobyl and The Last of Us guy wrote a…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":481843,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[268],"tags":[434,129450,13336,18,117,210747,19,17,13340,70596,162188],"class_list":{"0":"post-481842","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-celebrities","8":"tag-celebrities","9":"tag-chernobyl","10":"tag-craig-mazin","11":"tag-eire","12":"tag-entertainment","13":"tag-im-having-an-episode","14":"tag-ie","15":"tag-ireland","16":"tag-the-last-of-us","17":"tag-the-sheep-detectives","18":"tag-thrs-original-podcasts"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@ie\/116564885208645845","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/481842","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=481842"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/481842\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/481843"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=481842"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=481842"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=481842"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}