![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/poland\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Marek-Magierowski_int-4-1024x576.jpg\"\/)
Marek Magierowski PHOTO: Tam\u00e1s Gyurkovits\/Hungarian Conservative<\/p>\nMarek Magierowski is a former Polish journalist and diplomat, former Undersecretary of State at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and former Polish ambassador to Israel and the United States. He holds a master\u2019s degree in Hispanic studies from Adam Mickiewicz University. He worked as deputy editor-in-chief of Rzeczpospolita and Forum, and as foreign desk editor at Newsweek Polska. From 2015 to 2017, he served as head of the Press Office and spokesperson for the president of Poland, later also serving as deputy foreign minister. Between 2018 and 2021, he was Poland\u2019s ambassador to Israel, and from 2021 to 2024, Poland\u2019s ambassador to the United States. His book, Exhausted, examines the European Union\u2019s financial crisis.<\/p>\n
***<\/p>\n
Hungary has had a new government for a month and a half. It came to power with a promise of political change, a system change, similar to the promise that Donald Tusk made to Polish voters two and a half years ago.<\/p>\n
There is a dichotomy in our relations with Hungary, because we\u2019ve always had excellent relations with the Hungarian nation due to our shared history and common experiences, including under communism. It\u2019s not about relations between governments; it\u2019s about cooperation and friendship between our nations and societies. The same principle applies to other nations and governments. We have also had a rather complicated relationship with the United States recently because of the unpredictability of the Trump administration. On the other hand, we know very well that there may be a political transition in the United States within two years. Republicans might lose their majority in Congress as early as this autumn.<\/p>\n
So when we talk about bilateral relations, we always have to remember that governments come and go, heads of state come and go; they are elected, re-elected, and then ousted from their posts. So whenever we talk about our relations with Hungary, and, for example, the framework of the Visegr\u00e1d Group, especially in terms of our activity, status, and political and economic impact within the European Union, I think it has always been a political mistake to think of the group as a defunct structure, a format which we don\u2019t need anymore.<\/p>\n
We had some political tensions, especially with regard to relations with Russia. It was one of the bones of contention in our relationship with Hungary, especially Mr Orb\u00e1n\u2019s stance on the war in Ukraine, his attitude towards the Russian Federation, and his reluctance to join other EU countries in the sanctions regime. When we had the previous conservative government, paradoxically, relations also deteriorated, not because of conservative differences. We saw eye to eye with Mr Orb\u00e1n on many issues: the fight against woke ideology and liberalism, and the defence of Judeo\u2013Christian values.<\/p>\n
What similarities and parallels do you see between the two government changes, as Mr Tusk and Mr Magyar dismantle the former government\u2019s political institutions?<\/p>\n
I think that fatigue and disappointment of a wider electorate play a very important role now in today\u2019s politics in many European countries. After 8 years of Law and Justice government\u2019s rule, and 16 years of Orb\u00e1n\u2019s rule in Hungary, I think fatigue and disappointment began to creep in, and it was one of the main reasons why voters just rejected both Orb\u00e1n and Morawiecki, our previous Prime Minister of the Law and Justice Party.<\/p>\n
\u2018I think that fatigue and disappointment of a wider electorate play a very important role now in today\u2019s politics in many European countries\u2019<\/p>\n
It\u2019s very difficult to keep all the promises, because in today\u2019s politics you keep promising things to people: reforms, overhauls, changes, and in order to keep them satisfied, you enhance the spectrum of your electoral pledges.<\/p>\n
Has the Tusk government managed to implement its election promises?<\/p>\n
We have elections scheduled in autumn next year, and I believe it will be very difficult for him to depict his government as an entity which has always fulfilled its promises. Again, I think disappointment and fatigue will also play a crucial role in the voters\u2019 decision in a year and a half\u2019s time. And it\u2019s interesting to see and to hear Mr Magyar trying to underscore the current state of affairs in Hungary, and putting all the blame on Mr Orb\u00e1n and the previous conservative government, because this is one of the methods used so frequently by political leaders in Europe: they always blame the previous government for what does not work in the state, in the country\u2019s economy, in the political structure. Because it\u2019s much easier for them to place the blame on others than to fulfill their promises.<\/p>\n
Marek Magierowski PHOTO: Tam\u00e1s Gyurkovits\/Hungarian Conservative<\/p>\n
How can you describe the so-called \u2018militant democracy\u2019, Mr. Tusk\u2019s political methods?<\/p>\n
You need militancy when you are trying to persuade your core electorate that we live in an undemocratic system\u2014and this is what Mr Tusk was doing when he was in opposition, and this is what Mr Magyar was doing when he was in opposition in Hungary. If you try to paint a very negative picture of what the current government is doing, you need to deepen the contrast between democracy and a system which is not fully democratic. So if you need to restore democracy in a country like Poland and Hungary, you have to keep repeating that we live in an undemocratic system, and if we do, we have to apply some tools and some ways which bring militancy.<\/p>\n
\u2018This is one of the methods used so frequently by political leaders in Europe: they always blame the previous government for what does not work in the state\u2019<\/p>\n
I think Mr Tusk and Mr Magyar have succeeded in creating very loyal voters not paying too much attention to what really happens or has happened in politics and economy. The most important element is this obsession with Mr Orb\u00e1n. I have myself been very critical of Mr Orb\u00e1n\u2019s policies, but I think that there is no rational thinking and reasoning either in Poland or in Hungary about political opponents, so that\u2019s why both Tusk and Magyar have been using these tools to mobilize their electorate, trying to highlight that contrast between the democratic system and this undemocratic gray zone in which both Law and Justice and Fidesz were trying to govern their countries.<\/p>\n
According to critics, the European Commission intervened in the elections, showing open sympathy for the KO and Tisza parties, and immediately after their victories, the Commission unlocked EU funds for both countries. Is this a case of open partiality?<\/p>\n
The European Commission, unfortunately, has the financial tools to punish and to reward governments all over Europe, and we\u2019ve seen this phenomenon for years. Liberal governments have always been cherished, and conservative governments have always been somehow punished for their activities, for their political and economic measures. And we had a very similar situation in Poland ahead of the elections in 2023, when some EU funds were explicitly halted and the Polish government under Mr Morawiecki could never use those funds in order to crank up the Polish economy. It was absolutely predictable and understandable that those very drastic and unjustified measures the European Commission, and more broadly speaking, the European elites were taking against the conservative government in Poland, and some other governments in Europe as well, were very detrimental to the electoral chances of conservatives in Poland.<\/p>\n
\u2018Liberal governments have always been cherished, and conservative governments have always been somehow punished for their activities\u2019<\/p>\n
Unfortunately, this phenomenon is widening now, because we also see American officials trying to interfere in Hungarian and other elections. And we have been complaining that so many organizations, entities and charities operate, again, in twilight zones, informally and unofficially, and they are actually sponsoring political campaigns in many countries in Eastern Europe. So we have to be very straightforward and very adamant, claiming and repeating that we don\u2019t want any foreign interference, especially in these young democracies like Poland and Hungary. Because we are still young democracies.<\/p>\n
But if you try to somehow interfere and show that you are entitled to determine the outcome of political processes in countries like Hungary and Poland, it\u2019s an echo of the colonial thinking of all those superpowers. We are young democracies, but we are established democracies; we are wise and smart enough to run our own countries.<\/p>\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/poland\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Marek-Magierowski_int-3-1024x576.jpg\"\/)
Marek Magierowski PHOTO: Tam\u00e1s Gyurkovits\/Hungarian Conservative<\/p>\n
Some claim that Brussels\u2019 generosity has a high price: obeying Brussels\u2019 initiatives, such as signing the Migration Pact, changing some elements of the tax system (no special taxes on multinational companies), supporting Ukraine\u2019s EU membership, and easing laws on gay marriage and abortion. Is it so?<\/p>\n
This is a strong tendency, and it will be growing, and I think that we should not pay that heavy a price for our freedom, because, as I said, we are capable of running our own countries and our own economies. I am a staunch europhile, and I can\u2019t even imagine a scenario in which we would depart from the European Union. But I\u2019m afraid that there are many political forces in Europe, also on the rise, which are quite clearly advocating Poland\u2019s leaving the EU, which would be catastrophic.<\/p>\n
On the other hand, I can see all those shades of grey with regard to our membership in the European Union, because we always have to make a calculation and try to strike the right balance between our democracy, our freedom, and all the obligations that we have as EU member states.<\/p>\n
\u2018So we have to be very straightforward and very adamant, claiming and repeating that we don\u2019t want any foreign interference\u2019<\/p>\n
If you ask me whether we are strong enough to oppose all those sometimes absurd measures adopted and imposed by the European Commission or by major European capitals, first of all, we should be more adamant that they run counter to our values. Poland has always been, is, and will be a Christian country, in spite of all trends and tendencies, migration, and some social developments. We are deeply conservative, so you can be liberal in terms of social issues, but you always have to remember which society you live in and how fast you can implement changes.<\/p>\n
When asked whether same-sex marriage will be introduced, for example, I always answer that, as a conservative and a Catholic, I am against it. But of course I would understand if there were overwhelming political support within Polish society for such a solution, because we live in a democracy. But for the time being, it is impossible, because the majority of Poles still oppose same-sex marriage. Maybe there will be a possibility, because there is an ongoing discussion about civil unions, which would somehow encompass and satisfy, at least partially, the needs of homosexual couples in Poland. But we need time.<\/p>\n
\u2018For the time being, it is impossible, because the majority of Poles still oppose same-sex marriage\u2019<\/p>\n
The social structure of every nation, of every society, is different, and in this respect I can see a conflict between the European institutions and national governments, especially in Eastern European countries. Poles, Hungarians, Romanians and Czechs don\u2019t like other forces, capitals or governments imposing their own rules, habits and ways of thinking about politics on us. Of course, it\u2019s an exaggeration to compare Brussels with Soviet Moscow 40 years ago, but I do understand people who are a little irritated by the European Commission\u2019s attitude towards Warsaw or Budapest.<\/p>\n
Are you optimistic about the political trends of the EU?<\/p>\n
The Conservatives in Poland keep saying that we don\u2019t want to leave the European Union; we want to improve not only the internal relations between member states and the European Commission, but also the functioning of the EU as such. I believe that we have to draw some red lines. We have to be more assertive in our relationship with the European Commission. I think that even liberals like Mr Tusk and Mr Magyar realize how risky it is to embrace everything that the European Commission imposes on us.<\/p>\n
\u2018We have to be more assertive in our relationship with the European Commission\u2019<\/p>\n
Are you optimistic about the V4\u2019s future?<\/p>\n
Yes, we have to maintain good relations with the nations and with societies. It is a very important format, because 90 per cent of our political priorities within the European Union are comparable, so I think we can work together. What matters is having common priorities and a common front regarding our relations with Germany and France. I don\u2019t think many people realize how economically strong we are as the Visegr\u00e1d Group. Trade between Germany and the V4 is much larger than German\u2013Russian trade. So we are economically very strong. We are becoming politically stronger as well.<\/p>\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/poland\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/O1A5133-1024x576.jpg\"\/)
Marek Magierowski\u00a0at the Danube Institute\u2019s conference in Budapest PHOTO: Tam\u00e1s Gyurkovits\/Hungarian Conservative<\/p>\n
Poland\u2019s geopolitical worry is Russia; you have historical experience that makes you alert. But why do you think that Russia is a threat to the whole of Europe?<\/p>\n
We have seen hybrid actions carried out by the Russian Federation for years. This is a never-ending war. We are focused now on the military hostilities in Ukraine, but what worries me most is Russia\u2019s intention to disrupt our lives on a daily basis. And it\u2019s not about launching missiles against civilian targets in Estonia, Poland or Romania. It\u2019s not about deploying drones, sometimes by mistake, but about trying to make our lives as hard and as unpleasant as possible: paralyzing airports, disrupting GPS communications, cutting communication cables at the bottom of the Baltic Sea, or even planting explosives on cargo planes. And this continues, and I\u2019m afraid it\u2019s becoming more difficult to protect ourselves.<\/p>\n
Poland relies on NATO and US security guarantees. How optimistic are you about the US and Europe remaining united in NATO?<\/p>\n
It all boils down to the perception of the Russian threat. There are differences among European NATO members. Countries like Poland, Finland or the Baltics are on the front line; it\u2019s quite understandable geographically that we sense that threat, and we are gearing up for a physical confrontation with Russia.<\/p>\n
\u2018We are focused now on the military hostilities in Ukraine, but what worries me most is Russia\u2019s intention to disrupt our lives on a daily basis\u2019<\/p>\n
If you speak with our Finnish friends, some of them do realize that this threat can materialize in two or three years\u2019 time. We are not that pessimistic, but we fear that threat perception is not the same across Europe. Partly because of some trends in domestic politics in certain countries. For example, the Spanish government, headed by Prime Minister Sanchez, decided not to allow flights from America or the use of bases located in Spain for combat missions over the Persian Gulf, which of course triggered a diplomatic spat between Spain and the United States. Sanchez knew very well that anti-Trump sentiment was very strong in Spain, so he cynically used that anti-American mood to boost his political standing.<\/p>\n
Also, it\u2019s not only about our attitudes towards Russia, but also about our attitude towards America. We have to strike the right balance between justified criticism of American foreign policy and our long-term needs, and our long-standing alliance with America, which is absolutely indispensable, especially given the reluctance of many European countries to spend more on defence. I give Trump credit for his insistence that European NATO members increase their military expenditure, and he has succeeded in convincing many of them. So I think we should remember that this is one of the crucial elements in this transatlantic configuration. If we don\u2019t spend more on defence, it will be very difficult to maintain coherence within NATO.<\/p>\n
Watch the full podcast below:<\/p>\n