Councillor John Cotton, leader of Birmingham City Council, faced questions from BirminghamLive in week five of the all-out bin strike
In the hot seat: John Cotton, leader of Birmingham City Council(Image: Anita Maric / SWNS)
The leader of Birmingham City Council has faced a round of media interviews amid anger among Brummies that the agonising bin strike is still raging, despite weeks of negotiations.
In his first face-to-face interview of the day, Labour’s John Cotton told BirminghamLive he was committed to see an end to the dispute, but not at any price. There were red lines that ‘could not be crossed’, he warned, ahead of the resumption of negotiations today, Wednesday, April 16.
He was also unable to quell concerns the city could yet face a summer of discontent.
READ MORE: Talks resume to end Birmingham bin strike as council chief warns axed role ‘cannot be saved’
He spoke out as talks got under way to try to end the dispute over the fate of 170 bin workers whose job on the waste trucks has been ‘deleted’. An all-out strike by members of the union Unite is into a sixth week.
While negotiations on that issue continue, bin drivers are also now in talks about the future pay and grading of their roles, amid fears they might be next to face a cull.
Coun Cotton confirmed every role at the council was under evaluation to eliminate once and for all any further risk of pay discrimination against women. While the evaluation process was ‘going well’, Coun Cotton acknowledged it was impossible to rule out future conflict.
He also answered our questions about
- hopes of a quick resolution
- who was in the room during dispute negotiations, and why he was not one of them
- who was really in charge at the council – the politicians, council officers, commissioners or the Labour Government?
- his personal membership of Unite and whether that affected negotiations
- how the clean-up operation was going and when things would be ‘back to normal’
John Cotton’s responses – in full
Q: What’s the latest on the bin strike negotiations?
A: “We have further talks taking place later today and it is really important those are approached in good faith on both sides. We have a fair and reasonable offer on the table, that remains on the table.
“It is disappointing Unite has rejected offers on two occasions but we are still committed to finding a negotiated solution to this dispute.
“But of course what we cannot do is cross our red lines when it comes to equal pay, the financial position of the council and the transformation of the waste service because we know the waste service has not been performing as good as it could be for a long time.
Q: Binworkers say they are being punished for historic underperformance by the waste service, and equal pay problems, that are not of their making. It is senior managers that should be facing pay cuts, not them. What do you say to that?
A: “The performance issues are a service-wide issue. We are not pointing the finger of blame in anyone’s direction. Work practices need to change, the management needs to be gripped tighter and we also need to be investing in the service’s capacity.
“We have invested in new trucks, new technology to better manage and deploy the fleet, changing the collection patterns by introducing weekly food waste, fortnightly collections and recycling.
“But, more broadly, there is an offer on the table that means nobody needs to lose out.
“There are alternative options available. There are Grade 3 roles in street cleaning for workers who have been displaced from the WRCO role, there are opportunities to train up to become drivers (or voluntary redundancy). Eighty per cent of the workforce have taken up an alternative.”
Q: Have you made the affected binworkers redundant, and how many?
A: “Redundancy consultation notices have been issued to the WRCOs still in place (who are yet to take an alternative).
“We are now in a position where that role is redundant. We have had to issue compulsory redundancies to those who remain in place. While we work through the statutory redundancy process the offer remains on the table and that’s why it is so important we continue to get around that table and try to find a solution.
“But that has to be based on the offer we have on the table at the moment because we frankly cannot concede to the ask made of us to retain the WRCO role, we know that is not going to meet the service’s needs going forward and also opens up real challenges around equal pay so we cannot go across that red line.
“We are absolutely open to speaking on the basis of the offer on the table.”
Q: “That doesn’t sound like you have much new to offer then.”
A: “We still have the outline of the offer previously made. There will be negotiations taking place inside the room and I am not directly party to that, and nor should I be as leader of the council – that engagement is between the trade union reps and the HR officers and management of the council. It would be wrong for me to offer any running commentary on what might come out of that but I am clear there are red lines we cannot cross. There has been an unhappy history in this organisation around equal pay and it’s not going to be repeated on my watch.”
Q: Who is in charge of the council and this negotiation? You, the chief executive, the commissioners or the Labour government?
A: “I am in charge of the policy and strategy of the council, together with my cabinet.
“We are very grateful for the support we are getting from the Government and they have been very clear about what their expectations are and they have also been very supportive with the wider clean-up operation and it speaks well of government that they want to work with councils, not against them.”
Council leader John Cotton during March’s budget meeting(Image: Nick Wilkinson/Birmingham Live)
“The officer corporate leadership is led by Joanne Roney and they are responsible for operational issues including industrial relations. We set the policy, we set the expectations including the red lines around equal pay for instance, but it is for officers to do the detailed work.
“The role of commissioners in all of this is that they have reserved powers they can use – commissioners have not used those – they offer advice and guidance and continue to monitor our improvement journey but the decisions about the future of this council and this dispute in particular remain very much in the hands of the political and corporate leadership.”
Q: How optimistic are you that this will end soon?
A: “Every day this goes on is incredibly frustrating for residents and for the workforce as well, who are Birmingham citizens themselves. This is something we have got to bring to a conclusion but we cannot concede to the demand being made by Unite to retain the WRCO role. That would be in nobody’s interests. Nobody needs to lose out as a result of these changes and we really need to find a way forward through talking. Our door is open.
Q: The state of the city has improved since police stopped pickets blocking lorries getting out of the depots – what has been happening in the last fortnight?
A: Tremendous efforts have been made since we declared a major incident and have been able to get the trucks out since April 4. We are now in a position to clean up because we have been able to get over 100 vehicles out daily thanks in part to support from other local authorities and through mutual aid, and have been able to stand up additional street cleaning capacity.
“We have already cleared 18,000 tonnes of accumulated waste and are collecting in the region of 1,500 tonnes of rubbish a day. In normal circumstances we pick up just shy of 1,000 tonnes a day, that gives you a sense of the amazing effort under way.
Q: So the rubbish clearance rate is better while some of the bin workers are on strike?
A: “There are some real efforts being made here. We have had some mutual aid and extended opening hours at the tips. One thing I must do is give a callout to residents and community organisations who have stepped up and helped us through this really challenging time and it speaks to the best of Birmingham.
“We will continue to focus on getting the accumulated waste off the street, that also means we can move back to normal collection days.
“We are not yet in a position to recycle but areas should now be getting their scheduled weekly collection. But we can only fully get back to business as usual when the dispute ends.”
Q: There are concerns about what happens to bin workers, beyond the current dispute over 170 WRCO roles. The union fear the driver role (there are around 200 drivers) is likely to be downgraded next, through your on-going job evaluation scheme. Can you reassure drivers that a downgrade is not in the pipeline?
A: “Every single role in the council is being re-evaluated using a methodology called Gauge, and the trade unions are part of all of those evaluation sessions around each job. That process is only just starting with regard to the driver role and they will be part of that process, so I can’t comment on a process that has not started yet.
“But we are using a methodology the trade unions are fully engaged with. When I came in as leader (in 2023) I was absolutely determined the process would engage the trade unions based on a methodology that has their support and that is what we have in place.
Q: You warned the job evaluation process and a new pay and grading policy needed to be in place by April 1 this year to avoid more equal pay claims. You have missed that deadline and are way behind schedule. What is going on?
“We are working at pace on that in collaboration with the trade unions to ensure the evaluations take place, we are also working on bringing forward the new Birmingham Contract, and of course while all this going on we reached a settlement framework agreement around equal pay claims as well, in partnership with the other trade unions. (He is referring to an agreement to pay off/settle with around 6,000 equal pay claims from current and former workers, mostly in female-dominated services.)
“We are absolutely in the right place in terms of taking these issues forward and closing down the historic liability which we could have continued to accumulate.
“I am absolutely committed that we cannot be back in a position where we repeat the mistakes of the past and recreate an equal pay liability. That has to end.
Q: Even if this dispute is settled (over the WRCO role) isn’t the reality that we could face more industrial action over the summer as you reveal the new pay and gradings decisions – not everyone working for the council is going to stay on the same pay and gradings…are we in for a real summer of discontent in Birmingham?
A: “All the work done around job evaluation so far has been done in partnership with the unions and that process has been working really well and with proper collaboration. It is in nobody’s interests that we end up in dispute on any front. It is really unfortunate that we end up here on waste, particularly when there is a very reasonable and fair offer on the table.
“My whole mantra as leader is to work in partnership and collaboration with the workforce and the union to find an arrangement that works for everybody but we also have to recognise this authority has been dogged for too long on equal pay and we can’t make those mistakes again and I’m determined we don’t this time.”
Q: You are a member of Unite, the union your council is in dispute with – does this make you uncomfortable, do you support the Unite cause?
“I have been a trade unionist my entire working life…my view is that I was a member of the T&G before it became Unite. It is perfectly possible to be a member of an organisation and not necessarily share the views of that organisation on everything it does – some of those Conservative MPs who have been critical of my Unite membership might have some resonance with that given the state of their party.
“My absolute priority is the people of Birmingham and delivering services to the people of the city that meet their needs. We need to transform this service and find a resolution to this dispute but also work on getting the basics right and fix the historic issues that have dogged this city for far too long.”
Q: You have personally been a member of the inner circle of this council for over seven years, and leader since 2023, when you said you were on a mission to put right some things. There is a sense that you and others have been let off the hook here. All of the big decisions that have come to light – around Oracle (IT implosion costing £100m to put right), equal pay (discrimination against women workers), Perry Barr (homes fiasco that has made a loss of at least £150m), bankruptcy, have all happened while you have been part of that inner circle. (You said you would have a public inquiry) but now won’t have a public inquiry, you are not in the room for the bin dispute discussions, you want to persuade residents there is nothing to see here about what councillors did or didn’t do around some of those disasters. Is this going to be another issue where you say it was not on you…can we trust you to lead this city?
A: “Two points on that – with regard to previous issues I go back to the audit reports issued that are very clear on responsibility and also very clear on the role I played and the current leadership played and didn’t play in those issues that have dogged us.
“The auditors have said what happened and what didn’t happen and I stand by what was said in those reports. As leader of this council I am determined we follow the right processes, have the right degree of transparency and also the right governance in place. If we look back on some of the issues that have dogged this council they have been down to issues of governance not being effective and not having clarity about who is taking decisions.
“That is why I’m absolutely clear that we are following the right processes over a whole range of issues but, with regard to this industrial dispute, that is why I am letting the industrial relations experts lead this process. It is not for politicians to be stepping in to that space but it is for politicians to say these are the expectations we have and we don’t cross those red lines over equal pay and we transform this service for the better.”