GHOST‘s Tobias Forge introduces us to Papa V Perpetua and everything he represents as he peels back the layers of ‘SKELETÁ’, out April 25 via Loma Vista Recordings.

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Read GHOST, ‘SKELETÁ’ | The Album Story below:

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On November 6th, 2024, Tobias Forge did something that so many of us should also have done. He woke up, looked into the flickering light exuding from his TV, showcasing the result of a US Presidential race that was clearly only the tip of the iceberg for what was to come, and through squinting eyes and with a shake of his head, he turned it off. Now, this was not a move done in direct protest of the result that was playing out, but more so leaning towards a much bigger promise he had made to himself. A moment for him to start practising what he had been preaching for so long.

He had just completed work on Ghost’s 7th full-length album ‘Skeletá’, a record which has curved away from the band’s trajectory of examining what has come before and instead faced inwards. Where 2018’s ‘Prequelle’ had focused on the act of survival through tumultuous times and 2022’s ‘Impera’ on the rise and eventual fall of empires, both still overtly relevant to existence at this very moment, Tobias had found himself considering where he himself personally fitted into these concepts. What it all meant to him as an individual within the unpredictability of this world. For a band so famously draped in theatre and pageantry, most notably right now in the revealing of the masked and cloaked Papa V Perpetua that accompanies this record, pulling back the layers in such a bare-boned manner felt invigorating but, most prominently, necessary, to feel like he was doing the right thing for right now.

“I decided that I am guilty as everyone else in trying to tap into ever spewing stream of unconsciousness from the machine,” he admits. “You shouldn’t be unaware, but I think it is important to shift focus. And somehow, we have started believing we have this ability to change the world just by simply wishing for it to be different. I do believe in miracles and do believe in the miracle of people being able to change things. And I’m not saying as a person, you’re not able to change the world. Because you can. You can change your world. So, in what way can I myself partake in that creation of a better world? I can do exactly what everyone else can, and that is do what you are best at.”

That realisation has resulted in some of the finest songs that Ghost now have attached to their name. Uplifting, expressive, emotional and, more than anything, irresistibly catchy, they are permanent reminders that it is okay to feel lost within all of this because you’re not alone in those feelings. That behind all of the noise, we are all just trying to exist with a shred of hope in our hearts. And no matter what is to come, we can always be sure we aren’t the only ones clinging to it.

To celebrate ‘Skeletá’ and everything it represents, Rock Sound sat down with Tobias to peel back even more layers of this deeply personal exorcism and discovered what it means to listen to the person beneath the makeup.

THE SOUND

For those out there who still can’t believe that a band that looks like Ghost makes such beautiful music with as much to thank the history of pop music for as it does the history of metal, ‘Skeletá’ is going to be even more of a shock to the system. From the classic rock anthemics of ‘Lachryma’ to the shimmering balladry of ‘Guiding Lights’, all the way through to utterly phenomenal ‘Umbra’, littered with synths, cowbells and the sort of galloping solos that would have changed lives coming out of the radio back in 1985, it is the most modern palette that Tobias has pulled from to date, whilst still serving as a celebration of so much of the music that allowed him to fall in love with this world.

So much of the Ghost creative process for Tobias comes from simply striving to not make the same song as he has done before. In the same way that a detective picks up on similar aspects and leads in every case, they are assigned but has to approach each investigation as the unique happening that it is, songwriting works the same way for him. And in a position where Ghost can continue defying expectations and pushing limits, the board is more open than ever, even if the challenge is still great.

“Bill Bailey once said, ‘When I write a joke, I always go backwards. I start with the laugh, and then I try and figure out what caused this laughter’,” he recounts. “Sometimes writing songs is exactly like that. But it’s harder when it comes to a full, cohesive piece of work that is very dynamic. I try to help myself by adding slight dogmatic rules. “Don’t make Impera 2”, so cross that idea out. “Make an introspective record”, circle that. Then what are the basic subjects around that? Let’s say love, hate, hope, acceptance. Good, I understand this. What do they sound like? Then you try and figure that out.”

In covering so many different bases and delving into so many different strands of rock’s illustrious history, Ghost have found themselves in a position where the sort of individual attracted to them is just as vast. This is something that Tobias feels all too potently, especially when wrapped around that fateful promise to himself he made in Autumn last year. The fact that so much of the sonic edge that makes up ‘Skeletá’ is pulled from attempting to turn a human emotion into a soundscape means that those on differing sides of the current spectrum of beliefs will find something in there that resonates with them but probably for a different reason to their neighbour. So, as this part of his exploration becomes canon, Tobias is considering those listening to his output and how that reflects in where we are heading, as much as where within his own soul it slots.

“We haven’t ever had a pre-requisite of how you’re supposed to be in order to listen to our music,” he expands. “Even though I feel as though there is a general leaning amongst our fans, there are surely a few dudes and girls that think we are on the right track right now. And I think one important aspect, not just on our rock record but beyond our circle of people who like these things, is not to forget about those who think that we are in the right direction, because the day will come when they realise that we weren’t.”

He takes a brief pause to gather himself within this very pertinent point.

“I feel like there is a need for us to collectively embrace ourselves at this point in time as it becomes history because it will be much sooner than we think. And when that day comes, it’s imperative that we have built up our human elements again, where all those basic things – love, hate, hope, acceptance – are our guiding lights. Because we will need that, and we want people to get to collectively feel that.”

THE COLLABORATORS

Over the last few years, the Ghost universe has been welcomely infiltrated by more collaborative individuals than Tobias may have initially expected when he pieced the project together over 15 years ago. And though some of the close relationships that have formed within that time still stand strong – most notably in the songwriting department alongside the likes of pop mavericks Salem Al Fakir, Vincent Pontare and Max Grahn, whose fingers continue to be printed all over Ghost’s music – there comes a time when you have to take things back into your own hands. Or, in the case of Tobias, get in touch with an old soul.

That old soul is Gene Walker, a pseudonym that he has used on two occasions; for 2019’s ‘Seven Inches of Satanic Panic’, home of the viral behemoth ‘Mary On A Cross’ and 2010’s debut full-length ‘Opus Eponymous’, a record that started life as tracks posted on MySpace. Though when considered alongside the personal, introverted state of this record, it would be easy to place Tobias taking on production duties himself on a shelf of higher meaning, it is a bit more straightforward than that.

“When I went into ‘Impera’, I knew what it was going to be,” he admits. “I knew what ‘Meloria’ and ‘Prequelle’ were going to be too. With this one, I didn’t, but there was still a certain urgency because we had the film coming out [2024 concert movie ‘Rite Here Rite Now’]. The only way I knew that I could start this campaign was for me not to find a producer because a producer would be coming in late, and they may disrupt the flow that I had found. I wanted to see whether I could still do it, too, so it was a really practical solution.”

Though there isn’t as much romance to that as you may have hoped, the desire to see if he still had it in him to tackle such a role is still a poignant admission for Tobias. When Ghost started, it was born from a desire to make something that didn’t exist yet. There was no notion that it would grow to be as omnipresent as it is today. It was simply a music enthusiast flexing those creative muscles. And despite the added pressure that comes with delivering now, and those naysayers continuing to chip in with their grubby opinions in every comment section they can, the constant threat of everything falling away again with one wrong step, there is a whole lot in common with where Tobias’ mindset is now and where it was then. It’s all about keeping on moving forward, because that’s the direction that love usually takes you.

“Ever since the first album, there has been this collective murmuring in the rock world of Ghost just being a hype and something that’s about to get flushed out when the next record doesn’t live up to expectations. Back then, I was very adamant, much like with this album, that I either submit to the rules of this scene that I come from that have already decided that this is just hype, or I follow my heart and move forward to whatever lies beyond. The trajectory really started after that, that I am going to go wherever I want to go. With age, momentum, and more and more people depending on my choices to be right, of course, I do have doubts. But I have depended on believing in the process, if you will. Believe in the idea that the only way forward is forward. As a fan of other music, I can look back, but not when it comes to me making it.”

THE LYRICS

The fact that so much of the Ghost storytelling journey up till now has been looking back on events that have happened in the distant and not-so-distant past means that there has been a personal disconnect from them for Tobias. When there is a desire to explain something that isn’t directly concerning you but still comes from the heart, that is where he feels you end up with “Fairy tales, dragons and speed metal”. As much a fan of a bit of Blind Guardian and Helloween as anyone, Tobias is quick to reiterate there is no issue with that, and the stories of survival during the black plague and toppling of empires that have littered the band’s previous two releases speak volumes to that.

But ‘Skeletá’ is as vulnerable as he has allowed himself to be, speaking less as the vessel in coattails or a cassock and more as the man underneath that wearing a Sodom t-shirt. The monster that is spoken of during ‘Satanized’ is not a mystic beast with two backs but a very real sense of resentment that sits in the stomach as hatred rules more and more of the roost that is our world. The idea of the morning sun melting away the ice that freezes the heart that sits within the chorus of ‘De Profundis Borealis’ is less from medieval metaphor and more from the reality of learning that this pain, too, shall pass. And the profound ultimatums declared during closer ‘Excelsis’ are rooted very much in the acceptance that life does come to an end and that it’s something we will all go through whether we like it or not.

A hurdle to tackle when speaking about the ins and outs of life and death and our understanding that nothing is forever is that vulnerability is something that many are still not used to hearing in rock music. But when contemplating how deep into his emotions he wanted to venture, Tobias only needed to look to his heroes and see that there is always more to uncover

“I think that as a songwriter, especially one who is standing in this authenticity-craving world, there are always moments where putting yourself out there makes you think, ‘Is this a little bit too cheesy’ or, ‘Is this something that people want to hear’,” he laughs. “But then I just look to my mentors. Pick any Rob Halford lyric he was putting above screaming metal appearing like it was about machinery, and it’s actually about his love life and his struggle. The same with Mr Manly Man himself, the dude of all dudes, James Hetfield, who has proven himself to be vulnerable many times in his career. He was even showing vulnerability way before with Metallica, but it was only really credited on ‘The Black Album’. That’s when it makes me realise that we are good. That’s when you just need to dare to do and dare to be ugly and say stupid things.”

The lack of fear in saying something stupid is, ultimately, what makes us human. It is a licence to be silly, to not worry about what others think of you if it makes you feel good. It’s where so much of Ghost’s backbone sits; in the lore surrounding the band, the characters that Tobias crafted to exist in his fantastical world and the fun that heavy metal has always embodied. In opening himself to the hardship that this world makes us endure, it has also solidified the joy that can be found in the cracks as well. If that isn’t a reason for us all to be that bit more honest with ourselves, then what else is left?

THE FUTURE

“This usually happens once we are at the stage where I am talking about it, like now, that things [about what the album means to me] are forming in my head at the same time. Only know is any of this beginning to make sense.”

This sort of admission from Tobias shows just how entwined with what Ghost has been, has become and will be he is. Imminently, the band will be kicking off a fresh world tour, taking over arenas across the world and bringing the sounds of ‘Skeletá’ into the magnificent mix they have crafted for themselves. However, what is different this time is that Tobias has crafted a new tool for his belt. A way of thinking that separates himself from the character of Papa V Perpetua, or any of his siblings and associates that have come before him. Where is quite simply Tobias Forge, and he can exist himself away from this monolith for just a little while. The person underneath the makeup is just as important as the face that has been painted upon them.

In looking inwards, in simplifying the process, stripping things back and allowing himself and Ghost to be naked and new again, he has set a new standard. And as long as music can provide that sort of clarity and courage, then there is hope for tomorrow for us all.

“When a tour is really close, I go from a frantic director to an entertainer for two hours every night,” he muses. “I need to go out there and pretend that this is the first night I have done any of this, and this night is more important than any of the others, and the crowd is the most important thing in the world right now. The rest of the time, I will think of something else because I can’t think about the meaning of the songs, my place in the world or my importance, or lack of importance, within it, too.”

“Because sometimes you are the architect, and sometimes you are the guy placing tiles. Either way, I know that it’s up to me to keep on moving forward.”