{"id":108761,"date":"2025-05-17T10:16:13","date_gmt":"2025-05-17T10:16:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/108761\/"},"modified":"2025-05-17T10:16:13","modified_gmt":"2025-05-17T10:16:13","slug":"scoring-for-dear-england","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/108761\/","title":{"rendered":"Scoring for Dear England"},"content":{"rendered":"

We talk to Gwilym Lee (Gareth Southgate), Liz White (Dr Pippa Grange), Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford) and Jude Carmichael (Marcus Rashford) about Dear England, the Olivier award-winning play by James Graham, which comes to Salford from May 29-June 29 following a 10-week run at the National Theatre.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"Gwilym<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee as England manager Gareth Southgate with his team in the play Dear England. All pics: Marc Brenner<\/p>\n

TRN: <\/strong>How challenging is it to play characters so well known in the media?<\/p>\n

Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cYou don\u2019t get much characterisation when they\u2019re on the pitch or in post-match interviews, so you have to dig for scenes like in the locker room, when it\u2019s just them. You have to make your choices with the characters and that\u2019s when you get to play around a little bit.\u201d <\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (Gareth Southgate):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cI think we benefited during Southgate\u2019s tenure from them opening up to the England fans on social media \u2013 for instance, the YouTube videos that go behind the scenes at St George\u2019s Park. They are really illuminating, because when you see post-match interviews, they present a version of themselves that is quite considered, whereas in those videos, dealing with inflatables in the swimming pool or just messing around, that\u2019s when you see them free, without constraints.\u201d<\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> Gwilym, while you\u2019re not a caricature of Gareth Southgate, how much did you study him to create such a convincing performance?<\/p>\n

\"Comfort<\/p>\n

Comfort in heartbreak: Gwilym Lee as England manager Gareth Southgate in Dear England<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):<\/strong> \u201cYou start with the outside-in when you\u2019re working with a real person, which is kind of the opposite way around to how I\u2019d usually approach a character. The trick is to constantly look for answers to the question ‘why\u2019: the ticks, twitches and mannerisms. Why does he move like that? What is it about his character that makes him move like that?<\/p>\n

“We\u2019re not impersonators, we\u2019re actors and our aim is hopefully to find both the humanity of the character and to find ourself in a character. This is very much my version of Gareth.\u201d <\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> The staging is so impressive, featuring a huge round stage with three revolving segments. How much of a challenge is that when you\u2019re performing?<\/p>\n

Josh Barrow (JP):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cWe had a whole portion of rehearsals devoted to learning how to use the revolve, as it\u2019s three tiers: one goes this way, the other goes that way, the third goes the first way. We really have to practise how to walk on it.\u201d <\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> Jude, how does it feel knowing you\u2019re going to be playing Marcus Rashford a stone\u2019s throw from Old Trafford?<\/p>\n

Jude Carmichael (MR):<\/strong> \u201cWhen my agent told me I\u2019d got the job, the fear came through! I was thinking \u2018when we go to Manchester, everyone\u2019s gonna be like: Go on then!\u2019\u201d <\/p>\n

\"A<\/p>\n

A scene from Dear England<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cWhen you get closer to the weekend, you start to get some football crowds in and it\u2019s great fun; you have people who react when the players come out or when Leicester City or Manchester City or whoever is mentioned, and they go yay or boo and it\u2019s really fun.\u201d <\/p>\n

Josh Barrow (JP):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cWe feed off it. When you go to the theatre, you sit down, watch the show, applaud the actors and so on, but with this, it almost demands participation. There\u2019s laughs and cheers, and boos, but then it culminates in this a massive party at the end with Sweet Caroline. The more a crowd leans into it and gives itself over to you, the more fun it is. When we get football fans in the audience that end moment is just wild \u2013 almost like a rock concert.\u201d <\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):<\/strong> \u201cSome people come not knowing anything about football, and the play resonates on a different level. Then there\u2019s the opposite \u2013 people who come expecting it to be a football play, which it is, but then it\u2019s also kind of a Trojan horse; it\u2019s about so much more. The idea of bringing in new audiences is a real bonus.\u201d<\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> This play feels so special because while we know the outcome, the audience still watches with a sense of hope. Does that translate to you all on stage?<\/p>\n

Josh Barrow (JP):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cYou see audience members during some of the penalties, and even though everybody knows how it goes – it was such a big moment – everyone is watching gripped and engaged. It\u2019s just perfect.\u201d <\/p>\n

Jude Carmichael (MR):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cYou get swept up in it. You know the outcome, you know what it means to be a fan watching, and even the aftermath. Whether that is good or bad, you can\u2019t help but get caught up in it.\u201d <\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> Have any of you performed at the Lowry before?<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cI was part of a tour years ago; we did King Lear there with Derek Jacobi. I\u2019m looking forward to going back, I love it! It\u2019s a beautiful theatre and a perfect match to the Olivier Theatre at the National – a similar kind of space. It\u2019s going to be fun taking the show to a new audience there and seeing how they respond.\u201d <\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> There are so many themes in this play – what do you want audiences to take away from it?<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cIt was interesting to watch Gareth Southgate\u2019s lecture recently; it feels like everything he touched on in that is at the heart of this play. It\u2019s about resilience and belief, and giving those things to people.\u201d<\/p>\n

Liz White (Dr PG):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cMasculinity is an interesting part of it, too. I\u2019ve really enjoyed researching Pippa because I get to listen to all her strategies and approaches for a better, calmer life, one filled with deeper joy – and deeper loss too. She talks about how to lose, and that sometimes gets a laugh. It could sound quite defeatist, but what she\u2019s saying is you can look at defeat in a reflective way, and let that feed the way you approach your next match.” <\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS)<\/strong>:\u00a0\u201cI think one of my favourite things of Pippa\u2019s is the idea of winning ‘deep’ or ‘shallow’ and there\u2019s a difference to just winning at all costs; it’s about winning with integrity and depth.\u201d <\/p>\n

Liz White (Dr PG):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cThat means if you go out there and play with integrity after all the prep and effort, you\u2019ve won\u00a0– regardless of the outcome.\u201d <\/p>\n

TRN:<\/strong> Sport and theatre have many parallels in terms of the shared experience \u2013 this is something the play explores well, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):\u00a0<\/strong>\u201cWe need these national moments of togetherness. We we get them we realise how brilliant this country is and how great its people are. It’s a divided world at the moment, at times even a divided society. When Gareth wrote that Dear England letter, it was a galvanising moment, encouraging people to come together. with power and strength, and it can be glorious. I think that\u2019s why the play has such power; because it taps into the collective consciousness and hopefully that\u2019s what audiences take away from it. There\u2019s hope, there\u2019s joy, there\u2019s power in being together.\u201d <\/p>\n

Liz White (Dr PG):<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cOn a very basic level, all of those things say you\u2019re not alone. Someone else is there having the same experience as you, it\u2019s so powerful.\u201d <\/p>\n

Gwilym Lee (GS):\u00a0<\/strong>\u201cThere’s a lot of parallels, sport is about performance, we\u2019re dealing with fear. I was scared about taking on this job, I read the script and told myself I had to take on my fears and go for it; to put myself in an uncomfortable position and see what happened!\u201d <\/p>\n

Dear England opens at the Lowry on May 29. Tickets and more info\u00a0<\/strong>here<\/strong><\/a>.<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"We talk to Gwilym Lee (Gareth Southgate), Liz White (Dr Pippa Grange), Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford) and Jude…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":108762,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5008],"tags":[748,393,4884,16,15],"class_list":{"0":"post-108761","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-england","8":"tag-britain","9":"tag-england","10":"tag-great-britain","11":"tag-uk","12":"tag-united-kingdom"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@uk\/114522658377008323","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/108761","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=108761"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/108761\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/108762"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=108761"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=108761"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=108761"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}