his home<\/a>\u00a0\u2014\u00a0\u00a0presumably the real-life inspiration for the playhouse from his children\u2019s show\u00a0\u2014\u00a0but he smirked and confessed, \u201cIt\u2019s a photo from the internet.\u201d Paul didn\u2019t want me to see where he actually lived. I had been warned he might be difficult. There had been a series of professional fallings out, I was told. I would always say to skeptical colleagues, \u201cI\u2019m good with complicated people.\u201d<\/p>\nPlus we were both gay. We were 30 years apart, and he was a celebrity, but at least we had that in common. Except Paul never enjoyed the freedoms I did as a young gay filmmaker. He had been as out as one could be during art school and decided to go back in the closet to pursue mainstream success. For most of his adult life, Pee-wee and Paul were two strictly separate parts of himself. I understood that choice as a survival strategy for gay men of his generation, but for Paul it was a source of shame and insecurity. He was strongly against his story being interpreted through a queer lens. \u201cI don\u2019t want to be depicted as a gay icon,\u201d he said, \u201cbut I do want to come out in the documentary.\u201d I never considered Paul to be closeted, but he had never discussed his sexuality publicly, and it was only later that I realized he had probably said the words \u201cI\u2019m gay\u201d out loud just to a small number of friends. Persuading him to say so on-camera, I learned, would be a major challenge.<\/p>\n
We spoke regularly for months\u00a0 \u00a0\u2014\u00a0 \u00a0sometimes just hanging out, other times talking through the documentary process, and to what extent Paul might be able to influence the story. The dynamic between a documentarian and a subject is tricky. The relationships are more collaborative than people might expect because we documentary filmmakers don\u2019t just need access. We invade the lives of private people with equipment and a crew, and we take their personal photos to scan and digitize. We ask subjects to sign release forms that grant us permission to use their life as the raw material for our work. Paul and I were bonding, but we were also working out how to get what we needed from each other.<\/p>\n
He would FaceTime me often, and I would always pick up. No conversation lasted for just 15 minutes. We would talk for at least two hours each time. I began to informally interview Paul about his life. He shared videos of early performances and television appearances and the places where obscure recordings might exist if he hadn\u2019t preserved them himself. We went through a list of close to 100 potential interview subjects\u00a0\u00a0\u2014\u00a0\u00a0from his elementary-school crush to fellow celebrities. We were in what could be called a \u201choneymoon phase.\u201d One night, stoned and lying on the couch, I answered Paul\u2019s call. Formerly a prolific pothead himself, Paul knew how to make me laugh to the point of tears, and that night he was in rare form. My boyfriend of 20 years, Carl, has seen the full arc of these strange relationships that straddle the professional and the personal, and he warned me after I hung up the phone: \u201cWatch out. You guys have absolutely no boundaries, and that could come back to bite you.\u201d<\/p>\n
In July 2021, I relocated to Los Angeles to begin production. Paul had invited me in to see his private world. He lived in a mid-century house packed to the brim with archives and collectibles. We would sit for meetings at his kitchen table under the Sputnik chandelier that figured prominently on the set of Pee-wee\u2019s Playhouse. Each evening at sunset, he meditatively spread dried corn and seeds around his driveway to attract wildlife. We would sit on a bench by his front door, quietly watching dozens of deer emerge from the surrounding hills. I felt we had become friends. He gave everyone in his inner circle carte blanche to speak with me, and I scheduled a dozen or so on-camera interviews. He asked me, though, to let him review the footage, which I\u2019m not accustomed to doing. I indulged him because I had promised he would be involved in the process. That\u2019s when we started butting heads. Paul hated how the first two interviews looked and came close to demanding reshoots. Then, without my knowledge, he asked the production designer for images of the interview frames on set.<\/p>\n
As a director, I\u2019m used to getting my way, and so was Paul. He asked our producer, Emma Tillinger Koskoff, to mediate a conversation about editing. As a condition to his participation in the project, we had agreed that Paul would have \u201cmeaningful consultation\u201d during the making of the film but that I would have final cut. The more we talked, the clearer it became to him that for all his early input, documentaries are really made in postproduction, where he would have less of a say. Paul brought up the issue when the three of us were driving to the storage units where he kept decades\u2019 worth of props and artifacts. Choosing my words carefully, I explained I planned to show him early cuts of the film to consider his feedback but it would be months before I could share anything. The conversation quickly escalated, and Paul raised his voice. He demanded the right to visit the edit room, and I was adamant that I needed to maintain my editorial independence. I never would have agreed to do the film if I knew that Paul would be breathing down my neck. He snapped back and said, \u201cThat\u2019s exactly what you signed up for.\u201d We arrived at the parking lot, and Emma left to let us have it out.<\/p>\n
We got out and walked for a minute in silence before he said, \u201cYou and I have a lot more in common than you think. We\u2019re scared of the same thing.\u201d He was afraid of losing control of his own story again, and I was afraid of losing control of my film.<\/p>\n
![](\"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/ad2c70b6b1a93709061b763c02b33580cf-paulreubens.rhorizontal.w700.jpg\")
<\/p>\n
\n A still from Pee-wee As Himself.
\n Photo: Getty\/HBO\n <\/p>\n
For three months, I filmed with Paul\u2019s friends. Meanwhile, Paul refused to set a date for his own on-camera interview. I tried to ignore my growing anxiety that he might never be willing to tell his story in his own words. Then, on my last day of shooting, Paul was ready to get started\u00a0 \u2014\u00a0 as long as we didn\u2019t shoot at his home. By that point, I didn\u2019t care. I just needed to keep things moving and film the interview. I asked for two days to prepare, and we staged a rented mid-century home. We decided the best method for filming would be through an Interrotron, the device invented by the documentary filmmaker Errol Morris to project the interviewer\u2019s face over the camera lens. This way Paul would be looking directly at the viewer throughout the documentary. I asked my cinematographer, David Jacobson, to put curtains around the camera so the only thing Paul would see in the interview chair was an image of my face. It was essentially a fancy version of our FaceTimes.<\/p>\n
The afternoon before Paul\u2019s first day of interviews, I got a frantic call. He was anxious that the backdrop and lighting wouldn\u2019t feel right, and he wanted to spend another day perfecting it. I told Paul that we could reschedule if he wanted to, but after a long, purposeful pause, I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to take care of you.\u201d<\/p>\n
The next day, Paul was in the interview chair. He would spend an hour describing his first visual impressions as an infant or the colors and patterns of the wallpaper in his childhood bedroom. But when I tried to push the conversation forward, he squirmed, or made fun of me, or asked for a break. Every time I\u2019d try a new question, he\u2019d retort with a sarcastic remark or a wacky facial expression. Sometimes he\u2019d answer a question and then digress into a 30-minute monologue about an elementary-school prank. I was growing concerned but kept a straight face.<\/p>\n
Even with ten days scheduled, I wasn\u2019t sure I could get Paul to let his guard down. He was on full display\u00a0\u00a0\u2014\u00a0\u00a0slippery, rebellious, outrageous, and, in moments of reflection, deeply thoughtful and sincere, but he was still holding back. \u201cI\u2019m going to keep a few secrets, and even if I don\u2019t, I mean, I will by nature,\u201d he said at one point. \u201cI\u2019m the only person that knows everything about me, I think. There\u2019s absolutely secrets that we all want to keep that make us attractive, that make us mysterious.\u201d Now I realize that Paul wasn\u2019t just battling me. He was wrestling with himself about how much to truly share on-camera.<\/p>\n
On the fourth day, after 14 hours of interviews, Paul started talking about his college experiments with drag. He knew I was going to ask him next about his sexuality. He was fidgeting in his seat, jokingly asking for lollipops. Eventually, he pulled me aside and said, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to do this.\u201d I said, \u201cYou just say, \u2018I\u2019m gay.\u2019\u201d We laughed. \u201cOkay, if you say so,\u201d he said. Paul sat back in the chair, and I continued to ask him pointed questions, which he dodged while speaking broadly about the word sexuality. Finally, I interrupted and asked, \u201cPaul, are you gay?\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cThis is something I\u2019ve never spoken about ever,\u201d he said. \u201cI\u2019ve spoken about it to a psychologist and a therapist. I\u2019ve talked about it to very, very, very, very close friends \u2026 At Cal Arts, nobody didn\u2019t know my sexuality, which was\u00a0 \u2014\u00a0 did I say it? Did it come out? Gay.\u201d<\/p>\n
Suddenly, his body relaxed. For the next hour, he told me the story of his college boyfriend, his first true love, an artist named Guy, the devastation that followed when the relationship fell apart. \u201cI was as out as you can be,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd then I went back into the closet.\u201d They stayed in touch over the years until Guy was sick with AIDS. Their last meeting took place hours before Guy died.<\/p>\n
That night after we wrapped, Paul FaceTimed me. I feared he was calling to take it all back, to tell me that he wouldn\u2019t let me use the material we had captured that day. Instead, he told me he was relieved.<\/p>\n
Despite our breakthrough, Paul was still evasive. Over ten days of filming, he had hardly discussed the arrests. More troubling, he was holding out on signing his release, and without that, we didn\u2019t have the rights to use his interview or archival footage or to even tell his story. Emma threatened to shut down the production, and I stayed up at night terrified that we might not get the crucial final interview. Weeks went by and then months with Paul and the producers at odds, and the project was at a standstill. Every time my phone rang, my heart started pounding. Either Paul was calling me with grievances or Emma was updating me with bad news.<\/p>\n
I was back in New York furiously working with my editor, Damian Rodriguez, to assemble the 40 hours of interviews I filmed with Paul, and the 1,000 hours of archival footage our archivist, Brittan Dunham, had already digitized. The production was losing money, but I thought if I made it to a rough cut, I could convince Paul to proceed. He needed to know what would be lost if the film imploded.<\/p>\n
My communication with Paul had become tense and infrequent, and in one of our last conversations, he told me that I was the only person who could save the production. He warned that if I didn\u2019t, I would regret it for the rest of my life. I pushed back: \u201cPaul, you are at war with the producers, not me, and only you can make the choice to proceed with the film.\u201d<\/p>\n
Five months went by. Paul and I had stopped speaking. When we had to lay off the postproduction staff, I was devastated. My relationship with Carl was strained, my health suffered, and I didn\u2019t know who would hire me after failing to finish the biggest film of my career. Then, on my birthday, I got a text from Paul with a Betty Boop animated GIF. \u201cHappy 40th,\u201d it said. He was a big believer in birthdays, and this gesture implied we might still be in good standing. Early the next morning, I woke to another text from Paul, asking to speak. He wanted to see if there could be a solution to continue making the film.<\/p>\n
The determination I once felt nearly two years ago to win Paul\u2019s trust had faded. I was skeptical and hurt, and I was trying to move on with my life and to start new projects. But I called him because I was scheduled to be in L.A. to shoot a freelance job that week. \u201cI\u2019d like to show you the first 45 minutes of the film,\u201d I said. Two days later, we were in a screening room.<\/p>\n
Paul arrived with his assistant, Allison Berry, who had worked with him for nearly 40 years. I was relieved that she joined because Allison was forthright with her opinions, and I suspected she had been advocating for Paul to finish the film. Before things went off the rails, I remember confiding to Allison about my struggles with Paul. \u201cI think he trusts me,\u201d I said tentatively. \u201cOr maybe he doesn\u2019t, and that\u2019s okay,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n
I sat behind Paul and Allison as the rough cut played. Occasionally Paul laughed, but he asked to pause every ten minutes for a bathroom break. Each break grew longer, and I assumed Paul was taking time to absorb the experience of watching his life play out onscreen. Paul saw the scene depicting his relationship with Guy, illustrated with vivid, romantic Super 8 film, which Paul shot in the late 1970s.<\/p>\n
At the end of the screening, he smiled. For the past two years, when I presented him with an idea, the best response I could get was, \u201cI don\u2019t disagree with that.\u201d I\u2019d say, \u201cSo does that mean you agree with it?\u201d He\u2019d clarify, \u201cThat\u2019s a different category.\u201d Paul said that in the bathroom, he was brainstorming what he should say to me about the film. \u201cI look forward to helping you make it even better\u201d was the response he came up with.<\/p>\n
I left L.A. inspired by our meeting and optimistic for the first time in a year. Still, the path to completing Paul\u2019s contract, securing the remainder of his archival material, and sitting down for that final interview was far from certain. Things got better and then they didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n
Whenever I expressed hope for a resolution, we\u2019d fall backward toward the same conflict over editorial control. When Paul was stalling, I assumed he was afraid to discuss the arrests. I also wondered if he had always intended to take over the film during postproduction. But it was futile to figure out his thinking. The project seemed all but dead.<\/p>\n
Then, seemingly out of nowhere, we got word that Paul was ready to move forward. His team asked if we could film his interview in two weeks. I was shocked that Paul was ready and that he had signed his release. Before the shoot, he called me. His voice sounded strangely weak, and he asked me to sit down. I could tell something was wrong.<\/p>\n
\u201cI might not be able to stay as involved as I hoped,\u201d he said. \u201cBut I know that you\u2019ll make the film we discussed.\u201d He continued, \u201cI\u2019m sorry that I was so emotional these past few years,\u201d and I responded, \u201cI\u2019m sorry if I did things that upset you.\u201d He said gently, \u201cYou didn\u2019t do anything wrong.\u201d Then after a long pause, \u201cI trust you.\u201d I was stunned. The only thing I could say back was, \u201cI\u2019ll do right by you.\u201d<\/p>\n
When I hung up the phone, I felt overwhelmed. I didn\u2019t know what had just happened, but it was heavy. The next week, when I was shooting another freelance job before heading to L.A. to film the interview with Paul, I got a text from an executive at HBO. \u201cIs this real?\u201d she wrote, along with a screenshot from Pee-wee Herman\u2019s Instagram account. It said, \u201cLast night we said farewell to Paul Reubens, an iconic American actor, comedian, writer, and producer \u2026 Paul bravely and privately fought cancer for years.\u201d<\/p>\n
I felt my legs buckling. In a matter of seconds, my phone exploded with an onslaught of texts. Emma called me, her voice quavering, while more calls rolled in. Then I heard from Paul\u2019s close friend and publicist, Kelly Bush Novak.<\/p>\n
Kelly said she had tried to call me before the news broke, but she couldn\u2019t reach me in time. \u201cPaul recorded something for you the night before he died,\u201d she said. A few days later, I was in her office listening to Paul\u2019s deathbed audio. It was devastating. But there was no time to grieve. The project I thought would never see the light of day now had an ending. That night and the year that followed, I went into filmmaking mode. In the edit room, I\u2019d sometimes cringe watching our exchanges. At one point, I told Paul, \u201cI don\u2019t think we\u2019d be here if you didn\u2019t have a tiny bit of trust in me.\u201d He shot back, \u201cYou\u2019ve made one documentary I liked, out of how many\u00a0 \u2014\u00a0 six?\u201d Other parts were revealing in ways I hadn\u2019t quite understood in the moment. I tried to recall any indication he might have been sick. The only thing that came to mind was something he said off-handedly: \u201cThe key to keeping a secret is to tell nobody.\u201d<\/p>\n
The film I made about Paul premiered at Sundance in January. I was still angry for the way he treated me but also regretful that he wasn\u2019t there. In the end, there was a limit to how much Paul would let me in. It has taken me a while to understand why. Paul spent his adulthood hiding behind an alter ego, and he took a leap of faith to share his inner life with me. He had made incredible art about self-acceptance but couldn\u2019t find it for himself. The tragedy, I think, is that he was on his way.<\/p>\n
The other day, I was writing a letter to a new subject. I was about to copy and paste my usual line\u00a0\u2014\u00a0\u201cTrust shouldn\u2019t be expected. It has to be earned\u201d\u00a0\u2014\u00a0when I had a flashback to something Paul once said to me. It was at a moment when things were peaceful between us, and I was explaining how I imagined telling his story. \u201cI\u2019m realizing that you\u2019re sort of making a love letter in the form of a film for me,\u201d he said. \u201cI don\u2019t disagree with that,\u201d I replied. Now that Paul is gone, I recognize he was right. Through my film, I was able to express that I loved him.<\/p>\n
Pee-wee As Himself is streaming on Max.<\/p>\n
Related<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Paul Reubens and Matt Wolf Photo: Courtesy of Matt Wolf When I approach someone to make a documentary…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":138646,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3935],"tags":[77,6961,25127,60403,3943,60405,60402,60404,60406,16,15,10357,10356],"class_list":{"0":"post-138645","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-movies","8":"tag-entertainment","9":"tag-first-person","10":"tag-hbo-max","11":"tag-matt-wolf","12":"tag-movies","13":"tag-paul-reubens","14":"tag-pee-wee-as-himself","15":"tag-pee-wee-herman","16":"tag-pee-wees-playhouse","17":"tag-uk","18":"tag-united-kingdom","19":"tag-vulture-homepage-lede","20":"tag-vulture-section-lede"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@uk\/114585509848379110","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/138645","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=138645"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/138645\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/138646"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=138645"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=138645"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=138645"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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