{"id":155594,"date":"2025-06-03T19:36:21","date_gmt":"2025-06-03T19:36:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/155594\/"},"modified":"2025-06-03T19:36:21","modified_gmt":"2025-06-03T19:36:21","slug":"two-paris-gallery-directors-on-leaving-cookie-cutter-model-behind","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/155594\/","title":{"rendered":"Two Paris Gallery Directors On Leaving \u2018Cookie-Cutter Model\u2019 Behind"},"content":{"rendered":"

\n\tEditor\u2019s Note:<\/strong>\u00a0This story is part of\u00a0Newsmakers<\/a>, a\u00a0series where we interview the movers and shakers who are making change in the art world.<\/p>\n

\n\tIn 2023, Nicolas Nahab<\/a> joined blue-chip Brazilian gallery Mendes Wood DM as a director, helping set up its Parisian outpost in the Place des Vosges. In 2020, Samy Ghiyati<\/a> was hired by David Zwirner in Paris to help the mega-gallery gain its footing in the French capital. Both men had serious French art world credentials. Nahab had a decade of experience at Marian Goodman Gallery and Yvon Lambert, where he held senior positions. Ghiyati had previously worked for Kamel Mennour, one of Paris\u2019s top home-grown galleries.<\/p>\n

\t\tRelated Articles<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"A<\/p>\n

\n\tThis month, however, Nahab and Ghiyati are striking out on their own to launch NG, an independent art advisory and exhibitions company. In the new company, Ghiyati will focus mostly on the advising side of things, while Nahab on curating. The aim is to organize experimental exhibitions created alongside artists that will surprise collectors and the public alike, via organizing exhibitions in non-traditional venues, hosting social gatherings, and more.<\/p>\n

\n\tThey see NG as both a complement to the current gallery system, but, in being freed from having their own gallery program, a chance to focus their energies on artists and collectors in ways that are proving extremely difficult within today\u2019s high-speed, ever-expanding gallery circuit.<\/p>\n

\n\tFor their inaugural show, NG is mounting a solo of new work by New York\u2013based Moroccan artist Meriem Bennani, in a yet-to-be revealed venue in the Moroccan port city Essaouira. The show will be Bennani\u2019s first in her native country and is designed with the regional community strongly in mind. The free event, which NG is funding, will open in December 2025.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab and Ghiyati spoke with ARTnews over Zoom to discuss their experiences navigating the gallery industry and why they set out to pursue a different approach in NG.<\/p>\n

\n\tThis interview has been edited and condensed for concision and clarity.<\/p>\n

\n\tARTnews: Why did you both leave your high-profile galleries?<\/strong> \u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tSamy Ghiyati: <\/strong>It\u2019s a childhood dream in a way. Since I was a kid, I\u2019ve always wanted to create my own company. But I did not want to do it alone. I like working with a team.<\/p>\n

\n\tNicolas Nahab:<\/strong> On my side, I feel I\u2019ve basically done as much as I could in galleries. When I was coming up in the art world here [in Paris during the early 2000s], it was quite a confined, limited space, so it was difficult to get in. It was a different world. When I joined Marian Goodman, I discovered much more about the trade. Marian is such a precise person, and she always valued institutional exhibitions and relations above all. I learned a lot from her. But I wondered what more can I do? And then I decided that it would be very exciting for me to help set up a company [Mendes Wood DM in Paris]. Now that it\u2019s set up, I feel like I\u2019ve done as much as I could in the gallery world. I cherish every memory about it. But at one point, you start thinking independently from the structure. And that\u2019s where this idea or this need for NG came from.<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd what was the catalyst to start NG?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> An opportunity made us kick-start this whole partnership. Specifically, a conversation with a French collector who wanted to focus more on art and collecting\u2014to go more in depth\u2014sparked our own conversations together. That led to thinking about what NG could be, beyond working with one collection.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati:<\/strong> Art advising is a business that is not very present in Europe, so there was also an opportunity there. We\u2019ve had collectors whowere asking more and more to expand to other geographies, other periods of art. We\u2019ve had people looking for Middle Eastern, or South American art, or I had people start collecting 19th-century painting, Old Masters, design, decorative arts. There was this idea of having a more transversal, holistic view of collecting. But at the same time, we like doing shows.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> As for exhibitions, working with artists has always been at the center of my activities over the years, and I didn\u2019t want to let go of that. Through conversations with artists, there is real appetite for exhibition-making, not just in commercial galleries, but also in regions that don\u2019t have as many institutional venues. Also, artists from different diasporas want to explore their identity, and go back to their roots. This has translated into the first exhibition we\u2019re doing with Meriem Bennani. It\u2019s a custom-made show, in that we looked for the space that corresponds to the conversations that we had with the artist. And it has a very strong bond with the local community. The show is the result of a conversation, rather than the other way around, and that\u2019s something we want to keep doing.<\/p>\n

\n\tWill NG\u2019s exhibitions be selling ones?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati:<\/strong> Not all of the works\u2014there will be some components for sale. In Meriem\u2019s case, we\u2019re showing video art, so it\u2019s not a very commercial show.<\/p>\n

\n\tHow do you fund something like this, if it\u2019s not very commercial?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>That\u2019s also one aspect of producing exhibitions in Morocco, where it\u2019s less expensive. We can afford to do this. Producing the same exhibition in Paris would probably be five times the cost. I think it\u2019s going to be a tool to engage our collectors and provide a program. We see this first exhibition as more of an investment. And we\u2019ll also do exhibitions of paintings, but this first case is very specific.<\/p>\n

\n\tCan you elaborate on how artists want to show outside traditional hubs?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Artists love experimenting, changing context, and being inspired. But I think also on the collectors\u2019 side, for them to travel to Morocco, it is exciting because not only do they get to see art, they also get to experience the city. They\u2019re by the beach. There\u2019s great food. It\u2019s a whole package experience.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>I think we are deepening the experiential aspect that we\u2019ve been seeing in this industry over the last 10 years. But we did that very naturally. For Meriem\u2019s show it\u2019s going to be very focused on the local community, and that\u2019s how the artworks were chosen. The show will be up for long enough to bring people over from the countryside, and to have a deep, local engagement, with context for people who are not used to these types of events.<\/p>\n

\n\tOver the years, what do you feel has changed about working in galleries?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> It\u2019s more the world that surrounds us that has changed, and then the galleries adapted. But when I first started, it wasn\u2019t as global. Markets were much more local. There were less fairs, and less institutions globally. And then the big difference for everyone, is communication. Information goes quickly, and it enables you to broaden your perspective and horizons geographically. Also, time spent with people has shortened because of just the sheer amount of people that you\u2019re in touch with, which is also very exciting. But we have less time, so the conversations are getting shorter.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>There are more and more collectors, that\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> They reach out by email or Instagram, and they\u2019re eager to acquire works from all over the world. It has changed the whole perspective on how people buy. How you source information is also different, because now we can source information online. So you come into conversation with people that are mostly knowledgeable about what they\u2019re looking at. And people are traveling a lot for art, so the number of exhibitions they see has multiplied, and their perspective on art has broadened.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>But it\u2019s also harder to go that in-depth into an artist\u2019s practice. At a fair you might have five minutes to talk to each collector, and you repeat yourself all day.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> In the past, we\u2019d sit down and delve into the practices of an artist and what people\u2019s interests were. With COVID, there was a return to people seeing more shows, wanting to spend more time, because they were lacking this one-on-one experience.<\/p>\n

\n\tIs NG one way to have more in-depth conversations and work on projects on your own terms, that you couldn\u2019t necessarily do before?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Yes. But also, keep in mind that we come from the gallery world. This is where our careers started. This is where our friendships, and relationships to artists started. So we want to be complementary to a certain extent, to whatever galleries do.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>In our case, it was also an idea of doing maybe a little bit less but doing it better.<\/p>\n

\n\tCan you elaborate on how this project differs from what you were doing before in galleries?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>On the advising side, I\u2019ve always had a core group of collectors whom I\u2019ve worked with for probably 12 years. So we\u2019re going to keep working with some of them. There has been this idea of opening a lot of gallery outposts in many cities, but at some point, if your biggest artists want to do a show in, let\u2019s say, Morocco, a gallery isn\u2019t necessarily going to open another space there. So that\u2019s where we come in.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> NG offers more flexibility in terms of what we are showing and the locations where we\u2019re going to be active. Because the structure of a gallery is more rigid. So it\u2019s difficult to look elsewhere or involve other people.<\/p>\n

\n\tHow can galleries do better, in terms of this lack of focus and time?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>It was maybe lacking for us, but I wouldn\u2019t say that in general. Some galleries are doing extraordinary works, building careers for artists. We touched on the fact that there are more and more collectors. That means that you need to provide more and more works, exhibitions, content, experiences, and for that, there\u2019s no solution. You need to provide. So we wanted to work with less people, do less projects, but go in depth. I think that\u2019s our own experience.<\/p>\n

\n\tTake previews as an example. There\u2019s almost a preview a day going out sometimes, between the fairs, gallery exhibitions. Many of my colleagues just send everything to everyone, and then you end up with collectors complaining that they receive too many. But if you don\u2019t send it all, they complain that they have not received this information. So I don\u2019t have a solution. It\u2019s true that, there\u2019s a lot of material out there, but that\u2019s also what people are asking the galleries to provide. It\u2019s a complicated balance to find.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Also, the activity level of galleries has heightened. They have to do more exhibitions. There has been a huge trend of participating in fairs, and this work shouldn\u2019t be underestimated. It takes a lot of work to organize a fair. It is still possible to focus, but it is more difficult.<\/p>\n

\n\tCollectors respond very well to a personal message. But you find less time to do this type of very tailor-made work. At Yvon Lambert, we had maybe 10 to 20 collectors that we could really cater to in a very precise way through our conversations. But now it\u2019s more complicated to do that. There\u2019s a lack of time.<\/p>\n

\n\tDo you feel artists are also receiving less focused attention from galleries as a result?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> I think that expectations from the artist side have also shifted, and that now they expect more services from a gallery. And if you expect more services, then I think sometimes there\u2019s a little bit of frustration that comes from that. At the end of the day, a gallery is there to not only promote but mostly sell your work, and an artist might want a book, a museum show, and so on. It feels like more of a contract today than it has ever had been.<\/p>\n

\n\tAs opposed to a friendship?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Yes, a lot of galleries were born from basically being in the same circle of friends, sometimes around an art school. Everyone knew each other. I mean, you saw that in New York in the \u201960s, for example. And then the galleries would represent one friend, and it led to another friend, and so on. It was much more related to personal relationships.<\/p>\n

\n\tYou described earlier a kind of endless growth cycle for galleries, and needing to keep up with the art world. Is NG one solution?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>That was definitely a conversation we had. It\u2019s not like we\u2019re inventing a new model that will replace the galleries. I don\u2019t believe in that narrative.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Also, I feel that more than ever, it\u2019s possible to leave the cookie-cutter model, blueprint of what it is to be active on the market. People are very open-minded, they want experiences, and they don\u2019t want to be exclusive. They want to travel around the world, to discover.<\/p>\n

\n\tAre you also thinking about the new generation of young collectors?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>Totally. It\u2019s very important for us to be working with collectors of our generation. We\u2019ve all read a lot about this idea that young collectors are interested in buying everything from sneakers, art, watches, jewelry, etc., and that\u2019s something we\u2019ve seen as well. But, again, we want to bring focus to that area. Because in my opinion [these varied offerings] get a little too spread out. We want to create visible links between these different things, in the context of exhibitions as well. For Meriem, for instance, for the opening party we will curate a music lineup with local and international people, which will be a public event, and which is connected to the show. We asked Meriem what she wanted to do after the opening \u2014 a small or a big dinner? And she said, \u201cYou know what I\u2019d like? A live concert.\u201d And we said OK.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> We\u2019re injecting a bit more meaning because we\u2019re catering to the artist\u2019s taste, but also to Morocco, a young country where people want to have a free concert, with international DJs. We don\u2019t do many shows, so we have the luxury of doing something that makes sense for the community and the artists and even for us. The social aspect is very much part of the art market. People talk about how grueling all these events are, so you want to have something that\u2019s a bit different, and part of the experience, where visitors will not just remember the show. They will remember engaging with the community, the events, dancing. \u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tGallery dinners have become a bit too routine.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>I can\u2019t agree more. I\u2019m going say it: I think these gallery dinners are very, long, slow, and you always see the same people, and unfortunately, there\u2019s no solution, because a lot of artists want a serious gallery dinner, and you need to invite a lot of people.<\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> We also want to host events regularly, where we mix people from different creative fields, because I feel like that\u2019s where you get excitement. And it branches out ideas.<\/p>\n

\n\tGhiyati: <\/strong>We are looking, as we speak, for an office in Paris, a private place where we can have these social gatherings, but be more creative with more meaning. It is a business idea in a way, because these social gatherings are key to anything the galleries do. That\u2019s part of our identity as well. We like to host.<\/p>\n

\n\tDo you see this emphasis on hosting as harking back to an earlier era?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> [About a decade ago,] I remember when Yvon Lambert took me to [designer Azzedine] Ala\u00efa\u2019s kitchen, and he would have this open table, and everyone could bring anyone, and he would just cook, and everyone was welcome. It was a mix of anyone that was creative in Paris, but also students. You didn\u2019t need to be important, but it creates an exciting exchange of ideas. I\u2019d love to re-create that.<\/p>\n

\n\tTo your earlier question, I think that younger generations don\u2019t perceive culture in the same way. It\u2019s flattened out, so a pop song has as much importance as a painting, which has as much importance as a movie or a viral video. You can put it all together. There\u2019s less high and low culture. And contemporary art was part of high culture [in the past], but I think the way younger generations perceive and consume it is different, or the need to acquire or to possess is different.<\/p>\n

\n\tDoes that mean there\u2019s generally less interest from younger generations to acquire art?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tNahab:<\/strong> Young people from collector families do continue a kind of tradition, and also get their friends excited about it, but I might be wrong here, but they don\u2019t have the same voracity for it. They love going to an opening and acquiring a work because they just bought a new house, but they don\u2019t necessarily make a lifestyle out of it. For a lot of collectors of the generations that I used to work with, the art world was a life for them. They would go to every museum, gallery, fair opening. I see it less with the younger generation. Collecting is part of a certain social class, and that has not disappeared. If somebody has seen their grandparents or parents collecting, they probably are going to do the same.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Editor\u2019s Note:\u00a0This story is part of\u00a0Newsmakers, a\u00a0series where we interview the movers and shakers who are making change…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":155595,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3939],"tags":[4021,4020,4022,77,66074,66075,66076,16,15],"class_list":{"0":"post-155594","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-arts-and-design","8":"tag-arts","9":"tag-arts-and-design","10":"tag-design","11":"tag-entertainment","12":"tag-newsmakers","13":"tag-nicolas-nahab","14":"tag-samy-ghiyati","15":"tag-uk","16":"tag-united-kingdom"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@uk\/114621119774836915","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/155594","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=155594"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/155594\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/155595"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=155594"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=155594"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=155594"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}