DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I\u2019ve never had trouble talking to women and have built some great friendships over the years. While my dating life hasn\u2019t been especially active, I\u2019ve had a few dates here and there. However, I\u2019ve noticed two recurring patterns in my romantic relationships: first, many of the women I\u2019ve been involved with have struggled with mental health issues or low self-esteem, and second, I\u2019ve never felt a strong physical attraction to them. I\u2019m actively working on the first issue, but today, I want to focus on the second.<\/p>\n
I approach this from the perspective that \u2018beauty is in the eye of the beholder.\u2019 Logically, I know there\u2019s no rule saying conventionally attractive people can only date other conventionally attractive people. However, I\u2019ve noticed that physical attraction plays a significant role in how I experience potential relationships. If a woman is attractive \u2014 whether in an \u2018average\u2019 or above-average sense \u2014 or has a great figure or carries herself with confidence, it definitely influences how strongly I connect with her. Unfortunately, I tend to feel disconnected, which sometimes makes me feel unworthy of their attention. I was the shy, nerdy type in school and college, never fitting in with the \u2018popular\u2019 crowd, and I think this has shaped how I view myself and my worth in these situations. I also studied in a field that was male-dominated, so this made it more difficult to meet women when I was younger, and I do remember male peers being involved in social circles that were more helpful (think: IT nerd compared to a jock).<\/p>\n
It\u2019s also worth noting that I\u2019m not exclusively attracted to any one type, but I do find certain styles, like alternative women, particularly appealing.<\/p>\n
My present hobbies are more female-dominated now-a-days, and I regularly attend a meet-up group where I\u2019m very popular and get along with everyone, except for the more attractive and popular women. I\u2019ve never spoken to them, and they haven\u2019t spoken to me either. This dynamic seems to be consistent across the board. However, this isn\u2019t a hard and fast rule in my life. There\u2019s one woman at work whom I find stunning, both inside and out, and we get along well \u2014 though we don\u2019t have many shared interests, the relationship is strictly professional, and she\u2019s married.<\/p>\n
On top of that, I\u2019m also confused about my own attractiveness. Even though people often tell me I fit the \u2018tall, dark, and handsome\u2019 stereotype, I\u2019ve never received much attention based on my appearance. It seems like none of my hobbies or style resonate with anyone either. I\u2019m into fitness and the outdoors, but women who share those interests don\u2019t seem to take an interest in me. I\u2019m also a bit alternative myself, enjoying rock music and having a noticeable tattoo, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve met many women who are into that lifestyle either. I simply can\u2019t seem to meet and\/or connect with the women I\u2019d like to be more involved with.<\/p>\n
I want to be clear: while physical appearance isn\u2019t the most important thing for me in a relationship \u2014 I prioritize shared interests and values \u2014 I do feel like my internalized beliefs about physical attraction sometimes prevent me from fully connecting with women I find physically appealing.<\/p>\n
Hot or Not?<\/p>\n
DEAR HOT OR NOT: There\u2019re a lot of things in your letter that jump out at me, HoN, and I will be pulling them to comment on them, but I feel like this right here should be the starting point: \u201cLogically, I know there\u2019s no rule saying conventionally attractive people can only date other conventionally attractive people. However, I\u2019ve noticed that physical attraction plays a significant role in how I experience potential relationships\u201d<\/p>\n
This is what we in the dating advice industry call a \u201cDuh George\u201d. Yes, shockingly, for people who experience sexual attraction,\u00a0how sexually attractive they find someone plays a significant role in their relationship. That\u2019s basically how people work. The place where it starts to enter quibble territory is on what makes a person attractive, which can be highly variable, and personal to the observer.<\/p>\n
Wanting to date people who you\u2019re physically and sexually attracted to is entirely normal and reasonable.\u00a0In your case, you\u2019re finding you\u2019re more attracted to women who fit the commonly held Western standards of female beauty\u00a0and that\u2019s fine. There\u2019s nothing wrong with that. It\u2019s also not surprising: that\u2019s part of why we tend to refer to it as \u201cconventionally attractive\u201d \u2013 it\u2019s what\u00a0most\u00a0people agree upon as making someone attractive.<\/p>\n
Yes,\u00a0it\u2019s almost always a good thing to interrogate\u00a0why\u00a0you find certain features or attributes attractive and whether it\u2019s something you\u2019re into or feel like you\u2019re\u00a0supposed\u00a0to be into it.\u00a0At the end of the day, you like who you like and what you like and again, that\u2019s fine. But sometimes\u2026 well, sometimes we get cases like yours.<\/p>\n
This may or may not make you feel better, HoN, but you\u2019re hardly the first nerd or nerd-adjacent guy I know who\u2019s had the issue of trying to\u00a0NOT be attracted to women they consider \u201cout of their league\u201d. In fact, in many cases, there\u2019s an almost performative element to the extent that some nerds\u00a0pride\u00a0themselves about liking women who don\u2019t fit conventional beauty standards. This is how we end up with things like Ernest Klein\u2019s deeply cringey spoken-word poem \u2018Nerd Porn Auteur\u2019, something that ranks as a crime against humanity and also my ears.\u00a0\ufffd\ufffdAt the risk of putting myself in hot water with my fellow nerd-brethren, I honestly think that a significant number of folks who loudly proclaim that Velma was categorically hotter than Daphne were, quite frankly, unsure as to whether they were trying to convince\u00a0themselves\u00a0or everyone else. Doubly so if we\u2019re talking about the period before the producers got in on the joke and Linda Cardellini got cast in the live action movie.<\/p>\n
(It also lands us in places where people who are unquestionably hot are called \u201cmid\u201d or implied to be unattractive because they weren\u2019t tall, willowy blondes; LOOKING AT YOU, EVERY CASTING DIRECTOR WHO EVER PUT JEANINE GARAFFALO IN THE \u2018UNATTRACTIVE NERDY FRIEND\u2019 ROLE!)<\/p>\n
Does this mean that\u00a0nerd and geek men\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0love women who have unconventional looks or don\u2019t follow the a la mode trends and styles? Of course not. But there are a lot of dudes who pursue folks they\u2019re not into in part because those women are seen as being more\u00a0attainable,\u00a0rather than being someone they find physically attractive or who is actually a good match for them. They\u2019re choosing partners they think are either on \u201ctheir level\u201d or who are \u201cthe best they could expect\u201d, which, honestly, is pretty insulting for everyone involved.\u00a0Nobody likes feeling like someone\u2019s consolation prize, especially when one person legitimately thinks their partner is the hottest thing since WWIII and the other\u2026 well, the other is doing their best hide their overall feeling of \u201cyou\u2019ll have to do.\u201d<\/p>\n
(There\u2019s also the corollary of dudes who don\u2019t or won\u2019t openly date the people they\u2019re actually attracted to\u00a0because\u00a0they\u2019re worried about what their friends \u2013 or society \u2013 would say, but that\u2019s another topic for another time.)<\/p>\n
It sounds to me like you fall very firmly in the \u201cwell, nobody\u00a0hot\u00a0could like me because I\u2019m a nerd\u201d trope and it\u2019s shaped a lot of your self-image. There\u2019re many such cases, and\u00a0f–k knows I was as big a victim of that as any. But at the same time \u2013 and I\u2019m speaking from personal experience here \u2013 there\u2019s a point to which this becomes something you do to yourself. Yes, pop culture has its share of the blame (I could write volumes about\u00a0Pretty In Pink\/Some Kind of Wonderful\u00a0all on their own, followed by the assorted works of Joss Whedon), as does plain old every day culture. At the same time, however, there was \u2013 and still is \u2013 a tendency for the geeky and nerdy men to get into a defensive crouch that\u2019s equal parts insecurity about perceived inferiority and\u00a0a preemptive rejection of others; a \u201cyou can\u2019t fire me, I quit\u201d sort of behavior, often based around being \u201cbetter\u201d than that.<\/p>\n
This sort of defensiveness tends to cause nerds, especially nerdy guys, to huddle up under\u00a0the assumption that non-nerds, especially anyone who might be seen as \u201ccool\u201d or \u201cpopular\u201d \u2013 like jocks \u2013 as disdainful of them at best and their natural enemies at worst. As a result, you end up with folks who\u00a0choose\u00a0to self-isolate into increasingly small and balkanized communities and hissing like feral cats at everyone who isn\u2019t part of it, working under the assumption that other people\u00a0must\u00a0dislike them already.<\/p>\n
I mean, your field of study didn\u2019t mean you couldn\u2019t have a social life outside of it. Sure, you spent a lot of time with your classmates, but you could still have done things like joined clubs or student organizations that would\u2019ve brought you in regular contact with folks who weren\u2019t just your fellow STEM majors. It seems like a lot of this was a matter of choice for you.<\/p>\n
In fact, this is a theme that comes up rather frequently in your letter. This part, in particular, leapt out and bit me:\u00a0\u201cI regularly attend a meet-up group where I\u2019m very popular and get along with everyone, except for the more attractive and popular women.\u00a0I\u2019ve never spoken to them, and they haven\u2019t spoken to me either.\u201d\ufffd\ufffd(Emphasis added.)\u00a0\ufffd\ufffdI hate to say it but\u2026 well\u00a0there\u2019s\u00a0your problem! If you\u2019re not talking to these people\u00a0at all, I\u2019m entirely unsurprised that you don\u2019t get along with them. You don\u2019t interact with them! The odds are very good that you\u2019re giving off \u201cI don\u2019t\u00a0want\u00a0to talk to you\u201d vibes that would put people off who\u00a0are\u00a0trying to connect with you. Someone has to be\u00a0very\u00a0motivated \u2013 or\u00a0very self-centered\u00a0\u2013 to push\u00a0past glaring signs of disinterest in order to start a conversation.<\/p>\n
And honestly, it\u00a0does\u00a0seem to be entirely based around the potential dateability of them. I couldn\u2019t help but also notice this part: \u201cwe get along well \u2014 though we don\u2019t have many shared interests,\u00a0the relationship is strictly professional, and she\u2019s married.\u201d\u00a0Again, emphasis added. It\u2019s\u00a0easy\u00a0to feel comfortable enough to have a good relationship with someone when they\u2019re both entirely unavailable\u00a0and\u00a0your relationship is entirely based around working together. You\u2019re not afraid of being rejected because there\u2019s nothing to be rejected\u00a0over; you\u2019re co-workers, and that\u2019s all you\u2019re expecting out of this.<\/p>\n
I think\u00a0that belief of pre-rejection is forming the core of your problem. In fact, it sounds like you\u2019re expecting more encouragement or comment from people than is reasonable, especially from women, before you give yourself permission to feel\u00a0good\u00a0about your looks and our own attractiveness. And it seems pretty clear that this self-limiting belief is holding you back from actually, y\u2019know,\u00a0talking\u00a0to people you\u2019re into.<\/p>\n
I mean, you comment that you\u2019re in various different scenes \u2013 fitness and outdoorsmanship, rock music, etc. \u2013 and the women in those scenes don\u2019t show interest in you. OK but\u2026 how much interest are you showing in\u00a0them. Are you even\u00a0talking\u00a0to them? Not approaching, not flirting or trying to get dates,\u00a0but just making small talk? Any sort of behavior that isn\u2019t a strict Joe Friday \u201cJust the facts, ma\u2019am\u201d interaction?<\/p>\n
(Google it, kids.)<\/p>\n
Because if you\u2019re not? I\u2019m not exactly surprised you\u2019re not getting any traction there. And to be quite honest, if you\u2019re waiting for the high sign of \u201cah, you are hot, you should know that I think you are quite hot\u201d, you will be waiting a long, long time.<\/p>\n
Some of this is because, as a general rule,\u00a0women are unlikely to comment about the looks of a man they don\u2019t know well. In fact, there is a\u00a0lot\u00a0of reasons for them\u00a0not\u00a0to \u2013 not the least of which being\u00a0that they don\u2019t know how the guy will react. Many women know\u00a0from personal experience, that there are guys who will receive any sort of compliment, even \u201chey, nice jacket!\u201d as \u201cTake me now in a manly fashion\u201d. And as I\u2019ve said many,\u00a0many\u00a0times before, even in the far-flung future of 2025,\u00a0there\u2019s a\u00a0lot\u00a0of social pressure on women\u00a0not\u00a0to make the first move or to be overt in their interest.<\/p>\n
Just as much of it, however is that I kind of doubt that you would either recognize or\u00a0believe\u00a0it if women\u00a0were\u00a0giving you signs of interest. If you don\u2019t believe that people\u00a0could\u00a0find you attractive,\u00a0the confirmation bias lurking in your brain is going to dismiss anything that isn\u2019t at the level of \u201cI want to take you into the bathroom and I will suck you\u00a0dry\u201d as either a mistake or your misreading the situation\u2026 and even if it\u00a0were\u00a0at that level, you would likely think it was a trick or a prank.<\/p>\n
Again, as someone who has dealt with this issue myself, I can attest to this response from personal experience. Sorry, Lisa, I honestly thought you were making fun of me during our sophomore year.<\/p>\n
The problem really does come down to your not feeling like you\u2019re permitted to approach or interact with the people you find attractive,\u00a0simply because you don\u2019t think\u00a0you\u00a0are attractive enough to be found \u201cworthy\u201d. But the cold and hard truth is that waiting for other people to validate your hotness before you let yourself believe in yourself will\u00a0ever\u00a0fill that void.\u00a0All that external validation is only going to be temporary at best, and the slightest setback or even perceived hitch or hesitation will topple your self-esteem\u00a0like a Jenga tower balanced on a single brick. Your sense of your own desirability has to come from within,\u00a0first. If it requires you to think you\u2019re being a little delusional\u2026 well,\u00a0fine.\u00a0Be delusional. It harms nobody and benefits you immensely.<\/p>\n
A lot of it is going to come down to your being willing to\u00a0treat yourself like\u00a0you\u00a0think you\u2019re hot,\u00a0first. That means dressing in ways that you think make you look like a sexy bad-ass, even if you think you\u2019re just cosplaying at first. It means carrying yourself with confidence and assurance, even if at the start, you\u2019re consciously having to remind yourself to stand up straight, square your shoulders and\u00a0walk with a bit of relaxed swagger and rhythm. And it means being willing to not just\u00a0let\u00a0yourself be attracted to someone hot, but to\u00a0behave\u00a0as though you\u2019re \u201cpermitted\u201d to. Because right now? The main reason you\u2019re dating the people you are \u2013 the relationships that have been leaving you so unsatisfied \u2013 is because you\u2019re dating the people you presume aren\u2019t going to reject you.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s no reward without risk and there\u2019s no dating without the risk of getting rejected. Not everyone we like is going to like us back and vice versa. But if you\u2019re avoiding the people you\u00a0do\u00a0like in order to avoid rejection? Then you\u2019re just going to end up in one unsatisfying relationship after another. And that\u2019s not fair to you\u00a0or\u00a0to the people who are dating you because they like\u00a0you, even when you\u2019re not so hot on them.<\/p>\n
Start cultivating that relationship with\u00a0yourself, HoN and work on getting over this feeling that you have to be THIS hot to get on this ride. Otherwise, you\u2019re just going to be having the same issues going forward.<\/p>\n
Good luck.<\/p>\n
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com\/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I\u2019ve never had trouble talking to women and have built some great friendships over the…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":218766,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[4317],"tags":[105,218,16,15],"class_list":{"0":"post-218765","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-mental-health","8":"tag-health","9":"tag-mental-health","10":"tag-uk","11":"tag-united-kingdom"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@uk\/114755697659952125","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/218765","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=218765"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/218765\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/218766"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=218765"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=218765"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=218765"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}