\n\t\u201cIt\u2019s traditionally a five-year plan,\u201d he said. \u201cI think it goes to 2032 right now.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThough it hasn\u2019t been quite seven years since he last did this, it\u2019s still rare that Feige gives an interview of this length and candor. But after some ice-breaking small talk, in which Marvel\u2019s chief creative officer shared his thoughts on DC Studios\u2019 \u201cSuperman<\/a>\u201d (more on that in a bit), Feige made clear why he\u2019s spending the Friday before the premiere of \u201cThe Fantastic Four: First Steps\u201d \u2014 the 54th entry in the MCU \u2014 speaking on the record.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cWe produced 50 hours of stories between 2007 and 2019,\u201d Feige said. But in the six years since \u201cAvengers: Endgame\u201d concluded the Infinity Saga, \u201cwe\u2019ve had well over 100 hours of stories \u2014\u00a0in half the time. That\u2019s too much.\u201d In fact, including animation, Marvel\u2019s Multiverse Saga spans 127 hours of content.<\/p>\n \n\tAfter \u201cEndgame,\u201d Feige said the company entered into a period of \u201cexperimentation\u201d and \u201cevolution\u201d of the kinds of movies it was making, leading to projects like \u201cEternals\u201d and \u201cShang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve always thought if you take success and don\u2019t experiment with it and don\u2019t risk with it, then it\u2019s not worth it,\u201d he said. \u201cWhat we also ended up focusing on because of Disney+ was expansion \u2014 and it\u2019s that expansion that I think led people to say, \u2018It used to be fun, but now do I have to know everything about all of these?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tConsequently, Feige believes the well-documented problems Marvel\u2019s been facing over the last few years stem from an overabundance of supply, not a sudden drop in demand. \u201cLook at \u2018Superman,\u2019\u201d he said of the hit film, which opened to $125 million domestically and has grossed $407 million globally to date. \u201cIt\u2019s clearly not superhero fatigue, right?\u201d<\/p>\n \n\t(\u201cI liked it a lot,\u201d Feige added of the DC film. \u201cI love you just jump right into it. You don\u2019t know who Mister Terrific is<\/a>? Tough, you\u2019ll figure it out. This is a fully fleshed out world.\u201d)<\/p>\n \n\tAs Feige explained \u2014 and as Disney CEO Robert Iger has also said more than once \u2014\u00a0Marvel\u2019s dramatic increase in volume spread Marvel far too thin for its relatively small team of executives to keep up.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cFor the first time ever, quantity trumped quality,\u201d Feige said. \u201cWe spent 12 years working on the Infinity Saga saying that\u2019s never going to happen to us. We always had more characters than we could possibly make because we weren\u2019t going to make a movie a month. Suddenly, there\u2019s a mandate to make more. And we go, \u2018Well, we do have more.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tStarting in 2023, audiences began to sour on Marvel\u2019s content on the big and small screen. As Variety reported in June<\/a>, only three of the 22 films in the Infinity Saga grossed less than $500 million worldwide. Since the pandemic, however, seven out of 13 movies in the MCU have failed to reach that milestone. Viewership for Marvel\u2019s streaming shows, meanwhile, has also steadily declined<\/a>, according to data from Luminate. Most recently, \u201cThunderbolts*,\u201d which earned some of the best reviews Marvel\u2019s received in years, has only grossed $380 million globally.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201c\u2018Thunderbolts*\u2019 I thought was a very, very good movie,\u201d Feige said. \u201cBut nobody knew that title and many of those characters were from a [TV] show. Some [audiences] were still feeling that notion of, \u2018I guess I had to have seen these other shows to understand who this is.\u2019 If you actually saw the movie, that wouldn\u2019t be the case, and we make the movie so that\u2019s not the case. But I think we still have to make sure the audience understands that.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tTo that end, Feige spent an hour discussing everything from budgets, TV schedules and when Marvel greenlights a project to when (or if) audiences could see Miles Morales, Ms. Marvel or Charlize Theron again. He also provided an update on the status of \u201cBlade\u201d with Mahershala Ali<\/a>, and confirmed widespread fan speculation that 2027\u2019s \u201cAvengers: Secret Wars\u201d will not only conclude the Multiverse Saga, but provide a \u201creset\u201d for the entire MCU<\/a> \u2014\u00a0including a new cast for the \u201cX-Men\u201d films.<\/p>\n \t\tThere will be a lot less TV\t<\/p>\n \n\tWhile Marvel\u2019s feature output is slowing down to at most three films a year (a pace the MCU first reached in 2018), its TV output is cooling off even further, with often just a single live-action show per year. And the shows they do make will have far less overlap with the feature films, to disabuse audiences from the expectation that they have to watch everything to follow what\u2019s happening in any MCU project.<\/p>\n \n\tBy way of example, Feige cited the Marvel TV shows of the 2010s \u2014 like \u201cDaredevil\u201d and \u201cJessica Jones\u201d on Netflix and \u201cAgents of S.H.I.E.L.D.\u201d and \u201cAgent Carter\u201d on ABC \u2014\u00a0which were produced by a separate, now-defunct division of Marvel Entertainment, so they had a tenuous connection to the MCU (if at all).<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI think allowing a TV show to be a TV show is what we\u2019re returning to,\u201d he said. Asked if the events at the end of \u201cThunderbolts*\u201d \u2014 when most of the population of Manhattan was enveloped in an inky black shroud of depressive nothingness \u2014 would affect Season 2 of the NYC-based Disney+ series \u201cDaredevil: Born Again,\u201d Feige had a simple answer: \u201cNo.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tJon Bernthal in \u201cDaredevil: Born Again.\u201d \n\tAt the same time, the line between film and TV is not iron-clad. Jon Bernthal will play his \u201cDaredevil: Born Again\u201d character the Punisher in both an upcoming TV special and opposite Tom Holland in 2026\u2019s \u201cSpider-Man: Brand New Day.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cWhere we have great actors playing great characters, I think it would be fun to see them multiple places,\u201d Feige said. \u201cBut the output will be much less.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tThat reduction also meant that two of Marvel\u2019s TV projects were held for over a year after they\u2019d been completed: \u201cIronheart\u201d with Dominque Thorne, which concluded in early July, and \u201cWonder Man\u201d with Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, which premieres in December. It\u2019s something Feige is not keen to repeat.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI don\u2019t like when things sit on shelves,\u201d he said. \u201cIt stinks.\u201d The delay especially affected \u201cWonder Man,\u201d which follows an aspiring actor (Abdul-Mateen) with hidden superpowers as he strives to land role on a TV series playing a superhero. Feige, who was wearing a \u201cWonder Man\u201d baseball cap, pointed out that Marvel made the show before HBO Max\u2019s 2024 comic book movie send-up \u201cThe Franchise,\u201d or Apple TV+\u2019s 2025 Hollywood satire \u201cThe Studio.\u201d But now it looks like they\u2019re following a trend, instead of leading it.<\/p>\n \t\tDiversity still matters, but don\u2019t expect to see Miles Morales\t<\/p>\n \n\tSince the massive success of 2018\u2019s \u201cBlack Panther,\u201d Marvel has made a concerted effort to produce projects centered around women, people of color, and LGBTQ characters. Those titles include \u201cCaptain Marvel,\u201d \u201cBlack Widow,\u201d \u201cShang-Chi,\u201d \u201cEternals,\u201d \u201cThe Marvels,\u201d and \u201cCaptain America: Brave New World\u201d in film and \u201cWandaVision,\u201d \u201cMs. Marvel,\u201d \u201cShe-Hulk: Attorney at Law,\u201d \u201cSecret Invasion,\u201d \u201cEcho\u201d and \u201cAgatha All Along\u201d on TV. Several of these projects have been successful, but many have not, commercially or critically. More to the point, with Marvel\u2019s decision to dramatically reduce its output, it\u2019s been unclear what kind of future many of these characters even have in the MCU, if any at all.<\/p>\n \n\tPressed on this question, Feige appeared unconcerned. \u201cMarvel represents the world outside your window,\u201d he said. \u201cI\u2019ve always said it, before DEI and woke became a thing and after DEI and woke became a thing \u2014 are we after? I don\u2019t think so.\u201d He singled out \u201cMs. Marvel\u201d and \u201cThe Marvels\u201d star Iman Vellani as \u201cone of the greatest bits of casting we\u2019ve ever done,\u201d adding, \u201cI can\u2019t wait to see her somewhere.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tClockwise from left: Iman Vellani in \u201cMs. Marvel,\u201d Teyonah Parris in \u201cThe Marvels,\u201d Kumail Nanjiani in \u201cEternals,\u201d Joe Locke in \u201cAgatha All Along,\u201d and Tatiana Maslany in \u201cShe-Hulk: Attorney at Large.\u201d \n\tWhere that will be is much less evident. At the end of \u201cThe Marvels\u201d Vellani\u2019s Kamala Khan appeared to recruit Hailee Steinfeld\u2019s Kate Bishop to be a part of a young superhero team, but Feige danced around a question about whether \u201cYoung Avengers\u201d \u2014 as a film, TV series or TV special \u2014 is on the horizon.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cPotentially,\u201d he said. \u201cIn that case, it comes down to where\u2019s the best story and where is the best strange alchemy. Who would be fun to see them with? Each other, because that\u2019s what the Young Avengers are, but also mixing it up more.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tFeige was more definitive about the potential of another highly anticipated Marvel character\u00a0\u2014\u00a0Spider-Man\u2019s Miles Morales \u2014 showing up in the MCU in the near future. \u201cThat is nowhere,\u201d he said. Until Sony Pictures (which holds the film rights to the character) completes its animated Miles trilogy with 2027\u2019s \u201cSpider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse,\u201d Feige explained, \u201cWe\u2019ve been told to stay away.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\tThe Marvel Method is here to stay \u2014\u00a0it just won\u2019t be quite as expensive\t<\/p>\n \n\tDC Studios\u2019 co-chief James Gunn has said repeatedly that he will only greenlight projects that have a complete script. That is a pointed difference from Marvel Studios, which has sometimes announced projects, with release dates, before a writer has been hired, let alone before a script is completed, and famously reworks movies throughout the filmmaking process. \u201cThe Fantastic Four\u201d star Ebon Moss-Bachrach recently told Variety<\/a> that he didn\u2019t think \u201cthe script was fully ready\u201d when the cast began three weeks of rehearsal before filming, \u201cso we were sort of workshopping the movie in a way.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tBut Feige took issue with both the comparison between Gunn\u2019s mandate at DC and Marvel\u2019s approach, and the idea that Marvel needed to radically alter how it makes its projects. \u201cWe\u2019ve never started a movie without a full script and I have never been satisfied with a script that we\u2019ve had,\u201d he said. \u201cI\u2019ve never been satisfied with a movie we\u2019ve released.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tHe defended Marvel\u2019s practice of \u201cplussing\u201d projects \u201cat every turn\u201d as they\u2019re being made \u2014 a term of art, referring to pushing for incremental improvements, that Feige credited to Walt Disney. \u201cActors, both the ones that are playing these characters for the first or second time and the characters playing them for the 10th or 12th time, are the best in the world at it and know these characters so well,\u201d Feige said. \u201cIf they have an idea, you want to listen to it and you want to adjust to it and you want to improve it. I wouldn\u2019t want to change that.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tMarvel Studios Co-President Louis D\u2019Esposito, James Gunn, and Kevin Feige at the \u201cGuardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3\u201d world premiere on April 27, 2023. \n\tFeige continued, \u201cI know there are filmmakers \u2014\u00a0James in my experience isn\u2019t one of them; maybe he is now \u2014 who say, \u2018If you want to be a part of my movie, you just say the words and you stay here the entire schedule in case we need you.\u2019 We have so many actors, we can\u2019t do that. We don\u2019t do that. We give people a window, we keep to that window.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tMarvel has changed course on at least one major aspect of its films: their cost. After budgets began to balloon following \u201cEndgame\u201d \u2014 partly due to the pandemic, partly due to \u201cfeeling the need to deliver a certain level of spectacle\u201d \u2014 the studio \u201cstarted grinding down the budget\u201d in 2023. Feige said Marvel\u2019s films from \u201cDeadpool & Wolverine\u201d through \u201cThe Fantastic Four\u201d \u201chave been upwards of a third cheaper than they were two years before that.\u201d<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/variety.com\/wp-content\/themes\/pmc-variety-2020\/assets\/public\/lazyload-fallback.gif\")
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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tGiovanni Rufino \/ Marvel Television<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tMarvel Studios<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tJesse Grant\/Getty Images for Disney<\/p>\n