There is perhaps no better innovator in the advertising space than the Texas lawyer. They’ve taken over our skylines with punny billboards and bombarded our televisions with commercials where tough men in expensive suits promise to fight for you. And now, they’re getting into the next logical frontier: Your algorithm.
Across Texas, lawyers of all stripes are starting podcasts, interviewing public figures, weighing in on newsworthy cases and pulling back the curtain on the ritzy world of Texas law, where the stakes—and amounts of money involved—are huge. Perhaps the exemplar of the genre is Swimming with the Sharks, the podcast that prominent Houston attorney Tony Buzbee started last year.
“People have so many questions and misconceptions about me and about the law practice,” Buzbee told Chron by email. “We decided to start a podcast; we really had no particular goal in mind other than to share our thoughts.”
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On Swimming with the Sharks, Buzbee interviews a smorgasbord of people from around Texas. Guests include former Gov. Rick Perry, Jim “Mattress Mack” McIngvale, Houston Mayor John Whitmire and even Frances Moody, Buzbee’s wife. On a recent episode, legendary lawyer Jim Adler, aka Texas Hammer, discusses how he was an early investor in television commercials when most lawyers thought it was tacky. Buzbee is a genuinely good interviewer, never interrupting and letting his subject do most of the talking.
“So many people want to be on the podcast, but we typically turn them down,” Buzbee said. “I choose, and I only choose folks that I’m personally interested in.”
But for as many interviews there are with notable Houstonians, there are just as many of Buzbee’s musings on life among Houston’s upper crust. Buzbee regularly dishes on his favorite restaurants in town, gives his thoughts on ICE agents and luxury cars and complains about pet peeves, like when drivers back into parking spots.
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“I think our best podcasts, however, have been just [fellow attorney and co-host Colby Holler] and I riffing on life,” Buzbee told Chron.
Buzbee, known for representing high-profile clients and his runs for political office, is a natural fit for podcasting. He has a knack for getting attention, a skill that has served him well behind the mic.
A story about a harrowing experience in Houston’s Heights neighborhood promptly became roast material and made its way to this very website. One clip from an interview with his former client, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, even briefly became campaign fodder in the Texas Senate race. Buzbee said that Swimming with the Sharks averages about 2 million views across clips posted to Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.
‘They have something important to say.’
Buzbee is hardly the only lawyer getting into the podcasting game. Dan Cogdell, a longtime attorney who served on Paxton’s 2023 impeachment defense team with Buzbee, made headlines when he interviewed and endorsed Paxton’s opponent, Democratic nominee James Talarico, on his show Cogdell Law Uncensored. Houston power attorney Brian White has a show, as does the State Bar of Texas and the Houston Bar Association.
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Attorneys Kyle Herbert and Peter Taaffe record an episode of their podcast “Dirty Verdict.”
Courtesy of Amanda Orr
Amanda Orr, a veteran legal journalist who now runs a public relations firm, helps produce the legal podcast Dirty Verdict hosted by longtime Texas trial attorneys Peter Taaffe, Kyle Herbert and Bill Ogden. Orr said she thinks that Cogdell and Buzbee, both of whom have appeared on Dirty Verdict, are podcasting naturals because they’re already known quantities.
“I think they went into it just because it was something cool,” Orr told Chron. “They’re smart. They’re funny, but they just have such a wide appeal for people, and they don’t always stick to the law.”
But while podcasts like Buzbee’s are designed for the broadest audiences who want to hear from flashy, big-time lawyers, Orr said Dirty Verdict is made with lawyers in mind, especially those “just entering into the industry.”
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Orr said that Dirty Verdict began in 2023 when Taafe and Herbert decided to start a show over drinks. Orr, who knew Taafe as a client, came on as a producer shortly after and has been behind the scenes of the show as well as occasionally hosting. On “Dirty Verdict,” the hosts interview other Texas power lawyers, such as Buzbee and Harris County District Attorney Sean Teare, and offer their thoughts on high-profile cases like the ongoing Lindsay Clancy trial, a hot topic on legal podcasts.
“People just can’t get enough of that content,” Orr said, likening these podcasts to her background in journalism. “When you have an expert that can actually give you insight and explain it in a really interesting way, it’s a really valuable thing for mainstream audiences.”
Left to right: “Dirty Verdict” host Kyle Herbert, guest Harris County District Attorney Sean Teare, attorney and host Peter Taaffe and producer Amanda Orr.
Courtesy of Amanda Orr
A knack for storytelling and the ability to make complex topics clear to laymen make lawyers naturally good podcasters. But Orr pointed out that the best shows that attract the most attention have hosts with larger-than-life personalities. The nature of being a trial attorney, Orr said, “requires an unusual conviction that your opinion and analysis deserves an audience.”
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“There is some ego involved, and that is not a criticism whatsoever,” Orr said. “That is actually a feature of successful trial attorneys, but it’s also a reason why they might want to go into podcasting. They think they have something important to say, and in general they’re right.”
Orr said that the podcasts can also be good for business. While lawyers would previously attend continuing legal education conferences or be a guest professor at a law school in hopes of scoring a case referral, podcasts can also get their name out there.
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“You have to have credibility and trust within the legal community,” Orr said. “Now we have the podcasting medium as a way for them to build their referral relationships. “They all want to become the trial attorney that other trial attorneys listen to.”
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But Buzbee told Chron that he has the “luxury of not having the necessity to advertise,” and that he doesn’t see Swimming with the Sharks as an advertising vehicle.
“My phone rings off the hook, and that was the case long before the podcast,” Buzbee said.