{"id":1003468,"date":"2026-08-16T01:09:46","date_gmt":"2026-08-16T01:09:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/1003468\/"},"modified":"2026-08-16T01:09:46","modified_gmt":"2026-08-16T01:09:46","slug":"churchill-where-does-upstate-begin-it-should-be-obvious","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/1003468\/","title":{"rendered":"Churchill: Where does upstate begin? It should be obvious."},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img alt=\"New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani says he's going on vacation upstate, renewing the debate over where upstate begins.\u00a0\" loading=\"eager\" fetchpriority=\"high\"   style=\"aspect-ratio:3 \/ 2\" class=\"x100 y100 opc bgpc ofcv bgscv block bg-gray200 mnh0px fill\"\/><\/p>\n<p>New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani says he&#8217;s going on vacation upstate, renewing the debate over where upstate begins.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Michael M. Santiago\/Getty Images<\/p>\n<p>Zohran Mamdani says he headed for an \u201cupstate\u201d vacation, to which I say: Good for him, and I hope he enjoys his time in White Plains.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/cdn-channels-pixel.ex.co\/events\/0012000001fxZm9AAE?integrationType=DEFAULT&amp;template=design%2Farticle%2Fplatypus_two_column.tpl\" alt=\"\" class=\"x1px y1px vh abs\" aria-hidden=\"true\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\"\/><\/p>\n<p>Oh, I\u2019m kidding. Even if\u00a0the New York City mayor suffers from the geographical myopia common among his\u00a0borough-dwelling\u00a0neighbors,\u00a0Mamdani must know that a true upstate vacation requires more travel than that. Right?<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>Well, let\u2019s hope so. Still, his vague declaration has once again ignited the never-ending argument about where downstate ends and upstate begins, at least among the online crowd that enjoys fighting about such things.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>As a service to the people of New York, I\u2019m going to settle the debate. I\u2019m\u00a0going to tell you how to know, with near-pinpoint precision, whether you\u2019ve crossed from up to down or down\u00a0to up. You can thank me later.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Our first test requires a southbound trip\u00a0on\u00a0the Taconic State Parkway. The start of the drive, through Columbia County, is lovely and, save for the deer threatening to dart into the road, relaxing. Pastoral, even. You can set cruise control to a chill speed and watch the scenery glide by. Upstate life is good.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Eventually, the mood shifts. You\u2019ll notice that cars are moving faster, too fast, really, for such a narrow and winding highway. Your muscles begin to tense, your jaw tightens. Why is everybody rushing? Stress and\u00a0agita thicken\u00a0the air like humidity.<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>You also notice that some of the vehicles, oversized SUVs mostly, occasionally drift into your lane and toward your car. Are these distracted drivers? Or is this hostility masked as inattentiveness? It\u2019s difficult to tell. But you know you don\u2019t like it.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Then, it happens. A car with a New York Yankees bumper sticker ruthlessly cuts in front of you, forcing your heart into your throat as you brake. What\u2019s worse, the driver smiles at your cursing protestations before flipping you the bird. What the *&amp;*^ is wrong with that guy?<\/p>\n<p>Congratulations! You are now downstate!!<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ll be cut off three more times before you hit the Bronx.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>Our northbound test takes more effort. It requires that you pull into town, sample the pizza at three local establishments and answer some basic questions.\u00a0Is the crust thin? Is the sauce lightly applied? Is the cheese moist, but not excessively greasy? Most importantly, is the pizza universally scrumptious?<\/p>\n<p>If the answer is yes, you are still downstate. Head north and sample more pizza. I know you\u2019re not hungry, but you have a job to do. Eat!<\/p>\n<p>Now, tell me, has pizza sauce suddenly gone\u00a0gloppy in this second town? Is it acidic or overly sweet? Is the crust so thick that it\u2019s difficult to fold?<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve arrived upstate!<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>Yes, upstate begins where good pizza ends. (Note: Bagels and hard rolls can be substituted, if necessary, with similarly diminishing quality with latitude.)<\/p>\n<p>Before you angrily stab at your keyboards, let me stress that not all upstate pizza is mediocre. You can find a good pie (or hard roll, or bagel) if you\u2019re willing to work at it. But tragically, you can\u2019t count on pizza being consistently good. I wish it weren\u2019t so, but that\u2019s the truth. Admit it.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Of course, there are other ways to test the upstate-downstate divide. If you remain unsure about a particular location, consider the following questions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Is there a Stewart\u2019s nearby? Do people act like this is a normal place to go for an ice cream cone? You\u2019re upstate.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>Do people keep talking about \u201cthe city,\u201d as if there is only one? Do they smirk when you say \u201cCoxsackie\u201d? You\u2019re downstate.<\/p>\n<p>Is the local accent dotted with flat As,\u00a0though you\u2019re nowhere near Buffalo? For example, does \u201cmom\u201d sometimes sound like \u201cmam\u201d? Definitely upstate.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Does everyday wildlife freak out the locals? Are strolling turkeys treated like marauding bears? 100% downstate.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If there are questions about where my loyalties lie, let me assure you that I certainly prefer upstate, as any sane person would. And since I promised to settle the debate, I will now tell you precisely where the good life begins.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n<p>Sign up for the Churchill\u2019s Corner newsletter<\/p>\n<p>Never miss a column from Chris Churchill.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.timesunion.com\/newsletters\/churchill\/\" data-link=\"native\" role=\"button\" class=\"td300 cp f aic jcc disabled:cd wsn px16 py8 buttonLg bg-primaryAccessible hover:o80 c-white disabled:bg-gray300 disabled:c-gray600 border bn tac br2 xmc mb24\">Sign up here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>East of the Hudson, upstate begins at a line (invisible, of course) extending from Wappingers Falls over to Hopewell Junction and Pawling. Across the river, the line continues westward north of Newburgh before slicing southward beyond the Thruway.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Woodbury and Sloatsburg are downstate. Middletown and Warwick are up.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s it. The argument is settled. Happy to help. Go about your day.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"uiTextSmall f aic jcc\">Article continues below this ad<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani says he&#8217;s going on vacation upstate, renewing the debate over where upstate begins.\u00a0&hellip;\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":1003469,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":"","_share_on_mastodon":"0"},"categories":[5122],"tags":[5229,324906,275397,405,403,5226,5225,5228,5227,324907,67,586,132,5230,68,2969],"class_list":["post-1003468","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-new-york","tag-america","tag-column-churchill","tag-latestnews","tag-new-york","tag-new-york-city","tag-newyork","tag-newyorkcity","tag-ny","tag-nyc","tag-opiniontu","tag-united-states","tag-united-states-of-america","tag-unitedstates","tag-unitedstatesofamerica","tag-us","tag-usa"],"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/pubeurope.com\/@us\/117102522350939648","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1003468","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1003468"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1003468\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1003469"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1003468"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1003468"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1003468"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}