\n\tHamnet<\/a>, co-written by Zhao and O\u2019Farrell, follows a fictional story of love and loss. It centers on the life of\u00a0William Shakespeare (Mescal) and his wife\u00a0Agnes (Buckley) after the death of their 11-year-old son,\u00a0Hamnet. It births the English playwright\u2019s celebrated tragedy Hamlet, a work Zhao describes as \u201cone of the greatest pieces of literature in the world.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI never really understood [Hamlet],\u201d she confesses. \u201cThe story is very dark. It\u2019s very dense. It talks a lot about the very difficult human experiences this young person went through in a short amount of time, and then he dies in the end. \u2026 I never really understood it the way I did when I read Maggie\u2019s novel. When I read the novel, I thought, \u2018Oh, wow.\u2019 I just looked at Hamnet completely different.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tInstinctively, the creative wanted to decline to make the movie, also produced by Steven Spielberg for Amblin Entertainment and Sam Mendes, alongside Zhao and production partner Nic Gonda\u2019s Book of Shadows. \u201cI didn\u2019t think I had the life experience to tell the story,\u201d she tells THR.<\/p>\n \n\tBut then she met Mescal, just before he earned his first Academy Award nomination for the cult hit Aftersun (2022). \u201cI felt like if he plays young Shakespeare, maybe [this is] something I could do.\u201d When British star Buckley signed on, it was all systems go. \u201cThe chemistry test was \u2026 sparks everywhere,\u201d giggles Zhao.<\/p>\n \n\tBelow, before TIFF, Zhao explains her four-year break from feature film after needing time to \u201cdecompress\u201d in the wake of Nomadland and Eternals. She gets philosophical about Hamnet, also featuring Joe Alwyn and Emily Watson with a Max Richter score, and learning to love her project\u2019s \u201cimperfections\u201d as though she is raising a child: \u201cThis time, I made sure every step of the way I reminded myself: This is the best I can do.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tThis is your first feature film since Eternals. Are you comfortable talking about the decision to take a four-year break and why Hamnet felt like the right project to return with?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tThat\u2019s a really good question. I don\u2019t think anyone\u2019s asked me that \u2026 I needed a break after Eternals and Nomadland because these two films were very intense. (Laughs.) [They were] back-to-back, making them and coming out. So I think it was the accumulation of a decade of me working non-stop \u2026 And I\u2019ve changed a lot as a person. I really wanted to have a period where I get to just decompress \u2014 because that takes time \u2014\u00a0instead of jumping onto the next thing. I\u2019m always guided by what comes from inside [me] instead of what\u2019s external. And it took about four years to do! But I also started a company with my producing partner, Nic [Book of Shadows]. So we\u2019re doing quite a lot of producing, which is really exciting.<\/p>\n \n\tHamnet, I can never quite pinpoint why I choose stories. I think they choose me. This decompressing period changed the ecosystem a lot of what\u2019s going on [inside me]. I think the project chose me because I was ready to be the fertile ground for it.<\/p>\n \n\tDo you remember the first time you saw Hamlet, the play?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tI don\u2019t think I\u2019ve seen Hamlet on stage before, [apart from] school! I\u2019ve seen the film, the original black and white one [with Laurence Olivier]. And then, I think, the one with Ethan Hawke. It was a long time ago. I remember Ethan Hawke\u2019s face on the poster.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tChlo\u00e9 Zhao poses with her Oscar for best picture for Nomadland at the 2021 Academy Awards.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tChris Pizzello-Pool\/Getty Images<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve seen both of these, but never really understood it. The story is very dark. It\u2019s very dense. It talks a lot about the very difficult human experiences this young person went through in a short amount of time, and then he dies in the end. I saw these films in my 20s, so I don\u2019t think I understood it. I read the play before. I never really understood it the way I did when I read Maggie\u2019s novel. When I read the novel, I thought, \u201cOh, wow.\u201d I just looked at Hamnet completely different. Then making this film, I used Hamlet as a very sacred container and in our version of the story, [we] know where that inspiration comes from \u2014\u00a0the two fundamental human conditions, love and death. That\u2019s how, in our story, [Shakespeare] birthed Hamlet. So to make a film like this, you have to also dive into these two emotions very strongly. One is little bit easier than the other \u2014 not for everyone, for some people, love is very difficult \u2014\u00a0so I\u2019d say I\u2019ve seen Hamlet before, but [I\u2019ve] never [felt] the way I feel about that play [as I do] right now.<\/p>\n \n\tWhat are you able to tell us about this movie and about its expedition into love and loss? What lies ahead for Shakespeare and Agnes?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tIf I were to get a bit philosophical about this \u2014\u00a0because you can always find a tagline [elsewhere] \u2014\u00a0I see it as a story of two people who look at the world very differently, even though the undercurrent is deeply connected. It represents the energy, I think, not only externally, but within all of us. One is deeply connected to nature, still and expressive, emotive, sensitive, intuitive. The other one is connected to civilization and is about constantly running away, going to places. [They\u2019re] not emotive, [they are] repressed, but hard and strong and hold space. [They] put their own feelings down so others can be expressive, right?<\/p>\n \n\tSo one is about being and one is about doing. One is about staying [and] one is about leaving. And I think these two energies coexist in nature: one\u2019s love, one is death in some way, right? They coexist because nature needs that cycle, but it\u2019s extremely painful when you have two people who fell in love and even though they\u2019re connected on the soul level, the way they grieve, the way they see what a family structure is like, the way they understand what oxygen is for them \u2026 it\u2019s very different. Sometimes the love cannot survive that difference. When they get together, they really complete each other and inspire each other; they have exactly what each other doesn\u2019t have. However, when something as big as losing a child happens, the way they grieve \u2026 they\u2019re both standing at this threshold. [They] can\u2019t go back and can\u2019t move forward. Their love isn\u2019t strong enough in that moment. They can\u2019t see each other for who they are and how they grieve. For Agnes, she can\u2019t quite understand why Will can\u2019t grieve the way she does. For him, he cannot be there for her and that made their relationship separate. His inability to express himself, in some ways, is tragic and painful, but at the same time, it will push him to the edge of the threshold: to be or not to be and therefore birth one of the greatest pieces of literature in the world.<\/p>\n \n\tAs a result, he gets to express himself through that story. That\u2019s where he feels safe to express himself and that allowed her to understand his language of grief and therefore burns her heart open. [She can] feel his love for their child and her. They\u2019re not suddenly back together and everything is fine, but these two people [are] brought together by his work [and] there is a moment of seeing and being seen by each other. And that, in some ways, is all we ask.<\/p>\n \n\tSo eloquently put. I\u2019d love to know more about the casting process and what drew you to Paul and Jessie. Did you have them in mind?<\/strong><\/p>\n \n\tWell, first of all, they represent these two energies I was telling you about so well. I love searching for actors who already have the essence of the characters in themselves \u2014 beyond the great talent. But I actually wasn\u2019t sure. I didn\u2019t read the book when I heard about the project. \u2026 Amblin called me about it. I was actually on my way to the Telluride Film Festival when I got that call. And my initial instinct was \u201cno,\u201d because I didn\u2019t think I had the life experience to tell the story. So I got to Telluride and someone said, \u201cHey, we have a meeting for you with this actor named Paul Mescal.\u201d I didn\u2019t know his work at the time because Aftersun hadn\u2019t come out yet! (Laughs.) And within a very short amount of time, I felt like if he plays young Shakespeare, maybe [this is] something I could do. Then, obviously, I met Jessie, but I knew her work so I\u2019ve always felt she\u2019s tapped into something fewer would dare to go, you know? A place that I think it takes a really brave heart to get to. So as soon as I read the book, I knew right away [Agnes] is Jessie, there\u2019s no question. So the casting process was very easy.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/wp-content\/themes\/vip\/pmc-hollywoodreporter-2021\/assets\/public\/lazyload-fallback.gif\")
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