{"id":72698,"date":"2025-07-18T13:06:13","date_gmt":"2025-07-18T13:06:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/72698\/"},"modified":"2025-07-18T13:06:13","modified_gmt":"2025-07-18T13:06:13","slug":"pedro-pascal-joaquin-phoenix-on-eddington-anxiety-and-more","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.europesays.com\/us\/72698\/","title":{"rendered":"Pedro Pascal & Joaquin Phoenix on ‘Eddington,’ Anxiety, and More"},"content":{"rendered":"

“HEY, EVAN …”<\/strong> <\/p>\n

Oh man. It’s a Sunday morning, I haven’t even had a cup of coffee yet, and now Joaquin Phoenix is saying my name. I had a Her poster on the wall of my college apartment bedroom; I’ve watched The Master in complete and utter awe on multiple occasions; And, look, I’m a man who was born in the early 1990s\u2014of course Gladiator holds a special place in my heart. So hearing my name, in that voice, coming from the speaker of my phone is surreal to say the very least. <\/p>\n

He continues: “Evan…” <\/p>\n

Again: Oh man. It sounds like he’s got something to tell me. <\/p>\n

We’re at the very end of an interview that I’ve just wrapped up with Phoenix and Pedro Pascal, centered on their roles in Eddington, Ari Aster’s new 2020-set black comedy neo-western conspiracy thriller. It’s an early east coast morning, but due to Pascal’s filming schedule in the U.K. for Avengers: Doomsday (where he’ll reprise his role as Reed Richards\/Mr. Fantastic, which he’ll debut later this month in Marvel’s The Fantastic Four: First Steps), this is when things needed to be. But what is time, really, when you have the chance to talk about one of the most provocative movies of the year with its stars: an eccentric, Oscar-winning<\/a> chameleon and the undoubtable star of the moment<\/a>?
<\/p>\n

Our conversation was centered on Eddington, and so that meant talking about just a touch of the many themes that Aster, the writer\/director behind surreal horror masterpieces Hereditary and Midsommar<\/a>, and a previous collaboration with Phoenix, the exceptionally strange but mostly great Beau is Afraid<\/a>, fit into the movie’s 2 hour and 25 minute run time. That includes talking about the peak Covid era in which the film is set (May 2020), ways to battle anxiety, and even a bit of a sweaty comparison to Gladiator. It meant breaking down the rivalry that anchors the film between Phoenix’s detestable lead character, Sheriff Joe Cross, and Pascal’s hypocritical local politician, Mayor Ted Garcia. And while Pascal was as personable and polished as ever, and Phoenix was delightfully open despite a bit of the awkwardness you see from him in every public appearance, we still landed in a place where I was wondering what, exactly, Phoenix wanted to say to me by the end. <\/p>\n

“Evan, thank you,” he says. <\/p>\n

\"eddington\"<\/p>\n

Courtesy A24<\/p>\n

Oh! Maybe he enjoyed the time then. After all, this is a man who once went full performance art on <\/a>The Late Show with David Letterman<\/a> while promoting one of his best movies, James Grey’s <\/a>Two Lovers<\/a> (an infamous cultural moment that he recently apologized for<\/a>). He was perfectly charming during our conversation, but maybe he was about to give me a real piece of his mind. <\/p>\n

“Thank you so much,” he said, again, repeating himself and continuing on an unexpected line of gratitude. “I\u2026 I thank you.\u201d <\/p>\n

OK! Sure. I thank you, Joaquin Phoenix. Glad everyone had a good time, because I sure did.<\/p>\n

Eddington is sure to be one of the year’s most polarizing films, and one begging for discussion and analysis, but it’s done major favors by Pascal and Phoenix’s performances as a pair of very specific figures fitting into Aster’s strange, heightened, 2020 narrative. And the key word there, we must say, is heightened. This world is a mirror image of our own, but one where everything is kicked up about 100 notches. There’s stuff in here we’ll recognize, but also stuff that’s obviously not real, obviously inserted to make us laugh, to make us think, and, yes, for the purpose of making an exciting and outrageous movie. This isn’t a docudrama\u2014it’s borderline absurdism. But grounding that absurdism with a pair of fantastic actors who are up to the task is the key to making it all work. <\/p>\n

As Eddington arrives in theaters with its certain ticking time bomb of discourse, controversy, and pandemic reflection in tow, Men’s Health spoke with Phoenix and Pascsal about taking on these troubling characters, their keys to managing anxiety, and the most memorable on-screen slap in some time.<\/p>\n

MEN’S HEALTH: You’ve both done <\/strong>Gladiator<\/a> <\/strong>films with Ridley Scott<\/a>. Would it be possible to view <\/strong>Eddington <\/strong>as a modern-day gladiator battle between these two characters?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JOAQUIN PHOENIX: <\/strong>You know, I didn\u2019t even think about that. <\/p>\n

PEDRO PASCAL: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t think about it either. <\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>… No. <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> [Both laughing] The answer is no. But I\u2019m drawing interesting comparisons, because my character in Gladiator II was directly linked to Joaquin\u2019s Empire, and there were even some flashback scenes that didn\u2019t make it into the movie that put me in the arena\u2026<\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>Really?<\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah, yeah\u2014at your death. And at Maximus\u2019s death, and that whole final part of the movie. <\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> Really! <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> And the rose petals. But it got cut out. So, archetypically, he was the sort of\u2014let\u2019s say\u2014villain, and then, at least in the presentation of Eddington, you wonder if Ted Garcia is a villain. They\u2019re very, very different [both laugh again]. In the movie, Joaquin\u2019s character, Joe, and my character, Ted, their facing off is a bit arena-like, actually. <\/p>\n

MH: Exactly! I\u2019m thinking of the \u201csix feet away\u201d<\/a> scenes. Obviously, the film is moreso a modern western, so that must be primarily where inspiration is coming from there. <\/strong><\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Yes, and I think Ari\u2019s visual intention in that kind of oner\u2014I hate when I try to talk like I\u2019m knowledgeable about filmmaking. I just expose how unknowledgeable I am. <\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>We all are. <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Is it a oner? <\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know! <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> It\u2019s a two-shot, and it\u2019s a wide\u2026 [both laugh]. Well, it looks very Western. That scene particularly\u2014it looks like a stand-off. <\/p>\n

\"eddington\"<\/p>\n

Courtesy A24<\/p>\n

MH: Joaquin, Sheriff Joe is our protagonist in this story, but he makes a lot of questionable choices throughout the film. How do you, as a performer, get on board with everything he\u2019s doing and get into the proper mentality as someone who\u2019s going to be making these increasingly reckless decisions?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> I guess without judgement. I don\u2019t know. I feel like I, and everyone I know, have made questionable choices. So, for me, it was to approach it with sincerity, and without judgement, and to try to understand the personal factors that are motivating Joe, to try to approach it from the inside out, I guess. <\/p>\n

MH: Much of this film is about striking the balance between managing a crisis, and keeping anxieties\u2014both personal and collective\u2014in check. How do each of you like to calm down and settle yourselves when facing potentially anxiety-inducing situations?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> Oh, man. You know today, honestly… this is so, so stupid. I don\u2019t have a good answer. Oh, god. I can\u2019t do it. Oh, man. OK. I fail at this all the time, but I want to respond to the moment with sincerity. And I don\u2019t really know what that means, because in my brain, I get into situations that are stressful, and it makes me anxious, and it makes me want to try to separate myself from whatever\u2019s happening, and stand above it, and feel like there\u2019s something where I\u2019m right, and whatever is making me uncomfortable is wrong, and it\u2019s something to mock. I want to try more and more to respond with sincerity and thoughtfulness and compassion to the moment, for myself and whatever the situation is. <\/p>\n

PP: <\/strong>I notice, especially during this period of the summer 2020, and the kind of isolation and how long my FaceTimes were, and my phone conversations, that I had started to make an effort to engage more, having previously lost that option in many ways. I can think back on high school, and college, and I was always such a talker with friends. Conversations on the phone, and then I don\u2019t know how many days had gone by where we stopped doing that. <\/p>\n

It\u2019s something that I\u2019ve held onto very much. I was always one to reach out when I\u2019m, as you say, facing something that is challenging or making me anxious. I definitely kind of stopped doing that, and instead I\u2019m doomscrolling, or looking for something to watch; looking for different ways to disassociate from the feeling I\u2019m having. And then, when it started to feel so critical, I had to go back to what was always the comfort for me in life, which was engagement in my relationships, my friendships, and conversation and shared experience.<\/p>\n

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\u201cFinding some HUMOR<\/a> in some of the ABSURDITY<\/a> of those moments, in the midst of some of that DARKNESS,<\/a> felt like it was VITAL.<\/a>\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n

MH: Building on all of that, this story takes place in a very anxiety-inducing time in recent American history, in the early days of the Covid pandemic. It\u2019s generally a time that most people probably don\u2019t want to think too much about\u2014why were you both eager and interested to explore it for this film?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> Because it wasn\u2019t easy. Because it was something to challenge you, and sometimes you have to walk toward what\u2019s uncomfortable, and that’s maybe the best way to reflect. You certainly can\u2019t pretend it didn\u2019t happen, or pretend that we didn\u2019t respond to the moment in the way that we did. There was also something about this where it was challenging us all, as an audience, to face this moment, but also opening up this pressure valve and letting us laugh about it. Finding some humor in some of the absurdity of those moments, in the midst of some of that darkness, felt like it was vital. It felt like it was important for somebody to step forward and to do that.
<\/p>\n

MH: You guys seem very close on the red carpet, but your characters <\/strong>hate <\/strong>each other. What\u2019s the key to channeling that on screen, but keeping things light when the cameras aren\u2019t rolling?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>No, what\u2019s on film is the reality, and what we\u2019re doing in the press is acting. <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Yeah. [Both laugh]. You should see, now that there\u2019s no camera on us\u2026 speaking of Gladiator, I approached the phone so you could hear me, but I have a shield and a taser. And if he gets close, he knows what\u2019s going to happen. I\u2019m going to tase his ass. [Both laugh]<\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>What was the question? <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> How we get along. Look, Joaquin is a wonderful actor, and he\u2019s a wonderful scene partner. I\u2019ve had work where sometimes you don\u2019t have chemistry in a personal way with somebody, but the person you\u2019re working with has tremendous skill. And when you have your script, and you\u2019re on stage, or you\u2019re in front of the camera, it works just because you\u2019re scene partners to each other. In a very, very, very, very simple way, Joaquin is an incredible scene partner, and it isn\u2019t a lot more than that. He doesn\u2019t like me [both laugh]…. <\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>It\u2019s real life, and when you boil this down\u2014and Joe [Joaquin\u2019s character in Eddington] wouldn\u2019t be able to articulate this, but Joe doesn\u2019t really hate Ted, because he doesn\u2019t know Ted. He doesn\u2019t know who he is. He\u2019s based his entire idea of Ted on rumor and innuendo. And even though they\u2019ve grown up in this small town, and they have this history, and they probably went to the same school, and Ted\u2019s family\u2019s been a big deal in this town, the truth is that he\u2019s never really sat down and had a conversation with Ted, and just asked him how he is. <\/p>\n

So, really, Joe is just mad at his own pain, and his own dissatisfaction with his own life. His dissatisfaction is with his lack of control over his own life. Ted is the recipient of all of that anger. And I think if you understand that, we\u2019ve probably all felt like that. We\u2019ve all felt dissatisfied with our lives, or impotent, or unable to get out of a rut. And we\u2019ve funneled that, often times, toward people who don\u2019t necessarily deserve it. And I think that\u2019s part of it. For me, it was finding, what is it that Joe wants, and why is he not getting that, and what is that sense of frustration, and that anger, and how does that get spread out into the world. <\/p>\n

\"eddington\"<\/p>\n

Courtesy A24<\/p>\n

MH: Maybe the best scene in the movie is when there\u2019s a noise complaint at Ted\u2019s house, and Joe answers the call and comes, and it ends with Ted slapping Joe in the face. Can you walk through filming that scene? <\/strong><\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Can I tell the truth? <\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> Please, yeah! <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> I was not comfortable with slapping Joaquin. I even tried to take a stance\u2026 [both laughing] and spoke with the stunt coordinator, and took the position that I am not comfortable with a slapping. And then we got to shooting it, and I tried to fake it, and Joaquin said \u2018You\u2019ve got to do it.\u2019 And it was a surreally fast exchange in between takes, of \u2018That didn\u2019t work.\u2019 Joaquin saying \u2018You\u2019ve got to do it.\u2019 And me saying \u2018I do?\u2019 And he said \u2018Yes.\u2019 And we did it, and we went right into \u2018Action,\u2019 and I smacked the shit out of him. <\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> And he loved it! <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> No, actually! I didn\u2019t love it. I think what I loved, is that Joaquin was right, and how quickly he communicated it, and how quickly I understood it, and that felt like partnership. It felt like this is somebody that I\u2019ve known a long time, that I\u2019ve worked with a long time, and this is just a few days into spending time with him. And I loved that, but it actually was really hard for me. Ironically, I think it was harder for me than it was for him. It\u2019s not nice to hit somebody\u2014it doesn\u2019t feel good. Many people would argue with that. I might love to break a chair or something like that, but I don\u2019t want to hit somebody. So, that was really hard actually. It was really hard. <\/p>\n

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\u201cWe did it, and we went right into \u2018ACTION,<\/a>\u2019 and I SMACKED THE SHIT<\/a> out of him.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n

MH: Joaquin, what was that like on your end? <\/strong><\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> He was like, \u2018Please don\u2019t hit me,\u2019 and I smacked him really hard.<\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> Well, no, I mean, it was important. Initially, the scene, when I first had that scene, it was like a two-page scene of talking, and as Ari and I worked through it, it just felt like, \u2018OK, these characters have said everything they could possibly say to each other. What more are they arguing with?’ And it just feels like we\u2019re at this point where it needs to just be reduced to impulsive, caveman reactions. Enough of trying to explain things to each other. So, I was very clear on what was important, and, therefore, then, that moment has to be electric. And that\u2019s a oner\u2026<\/p>\n

PP: <\/strong>That is a oner! [Both laugh] <\/p>\n

JP: <\/strong>And so there were also a lot of technical things that have to be worked out, because I think it starts with me driving in, as a matter of fact. <\/p>\n

PP:<\/strong> Yeah, you\u2019re pulling in. <\/p>\n

JP:<\/strong> And, so, you\u2019re driving in from down the road, you\u2019re getting out of the car, walking through, and so there\u2019s all this time, for me, as the character, and me as the actor, and just this anticipation that\u2019s building up, leading to this moment. And yet wanting it to feel like it\u2019s shocking. It seemed to have an energy to it, which felt really important. <\/p>\n

This interview has been edited for content and clarity. <\/p>\n

Buy Eddington Tickets Here<\/a><\/p>\n

Related Stories\"Headshot<\/p>\n

Evan is the culture editor for Men’s Health, with bylines in The New York Times, MTV News, Brooklyn Magazine, and VICE. He loves weird movies, watches too much TV, and listens to music more often than he doesn’t.<\/p>\n