This week, the Supreme Court managed to fail to meet the already extremely low expectations most sane people already had for it. First, during the Idaho EMTALA case on whether hospitals receiving federal funding can refuse to provide abortions to women who are actively dying as a result of a pregnancy, we heard debate over which, and how many, organs a woman had to lose before an abortion becomes legally acceptable. By all appearances, it looks as though the court is going to gut the already laughably weak “life of the mother” protections by a 5-4 vote.
It followed up this abysmal performance with hearing the Trump immunity case the next day, and the comportment of the same five male, conservative justices was even worse. When Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Donald Trump’s lawyer, “If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person, and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?”, he replied, “It would depend on the hypothetical, but we can see that would well be an official act.”
Based on that one line of questioning, Trump’s argument should be going down in flames 9-0. A democracy cannot survive when its supreme leader can arbitrarily decide that it’s in the nation’s best interest to rub out his opponents, and then leave it to some future court to decide whether it was an official act, because he’ll get away with it as long as there aren’t 67 votes in the Senate to impeach. And given that it will have been established that the president can put out a contract on political foes, how many senators are going to vote to impeach?
But the justices did not laugh this argument out of court. Quite the contrary: At least five of the justices seemed to buy into the Trump team’s arguments that the power of the office of the president must be protected from malicious and politicized litigation. They were uninterested in the actual case at hand or its consequences. Elie Mystal, justice correspondent at The Nation, perhaps captured my response to the Supreme Court’s arguments best: “I am in shock that a lawyer stood in the U.S. Supreme Court and said that a president could assassinate his political opponent and it would be immune as ‘an official act.’ I am in despair that several Justices seemed to think this answer made perfect sense.”
At a minimum, it appears the court will send all of the federal cases back down to lower courts to reconsider whether Trump’s crimes were “official acts.” It’s also likely that their new definition of “official acts” is likely to be far broader than anyone should be comfortable with, or at least broad enough to give Trump a pass. This delay all but guarantees that Trump will not stand trial for anything besides the current hush-money case before the 2024 election.
This is catastrophic in so many ways. The first is that it increases the already high chances that the United States ends up with a dictator who will attempt to rapidly disassemble democracy in pursuit of becoming President for Life. It simultaneously increases the chances that yes, he will go ahead and violate the civil and human rights of political opponents and classes of people he calls Communists, Marxists, and fascists. People forget that the first German concentration camp (Dachau) was built in 1933 to hold members of the Communist and Social Democratic Parties, and Trump has made it clear that he’s building enough camps to process a minimum of 11 million people (migrants, at least for starters).
The conservatives on the Supreme Court have also exposed their hubris, willful ignorance, and foolishness to the entire world in stark terms, and it will cost them and the nation dearly in the long run. They somehow presume that if Trump is elected and goes full dictator, that the power of the court, and their reputation, will save them. The truth is, Trump’s relationships with everyone he meets are completely transactional. If the court ever stops being useful to him, he will terminate it with prejudice if he thinks he can get away with it, and this court is doing everything it can to make him think he can get away with it.
These justices’ foolishness lies in their lack of foresight as to what happens if Trump wins in 2024. In the justice’s efforts to ensure that they are the most powerful branch of government, they are about to make it the weakest. They are creating a win-win situation for Trump, and a lose-lose for themselves. When Trump is president again, he is likely to believe that he has the option of “removing” any member of the Supreme Court who defies him. As long as the court doesn’t rule against him, they’re fine. From the justices’ perspective, they either end up neutered lap dogs of a despot, who do whatever they’re told out of fear, or they defy him and end up somewhere … unpleasant (at best). Taking a dirt nap at worst. After all, if Trump can rub out a political opponent, can’t he do the same to an uncooperative jurist?
The Roberts Court surely believes that Trump would never stoop to this—that the sanctity of court and the laws and norms of our democracy will protect them. Anyone who has spent 10 minutes studying how democracies collapse knows this is idiotic, but it stems from the justices’ own hubristic belief that the court is so powerful and respected that it is immune to everything. They believe the respect for the institution will ensure their power endures.
Except, what happens when neither Democrats nor Republicans have any respect for the courts? If Republicans see the court as neutered pets who can be put down the first time they bite, or ignored like a chihuahua straining against a leash, what real power does it posses? Much like Stalin asked, “How many divisions does the Pope have?”, Trump and Republicans will be fully cognizant that the court controls nothing once every federal agency has been packed with loyalists.
If Democrats nearly universally see the court as a corrupt rubber stamp for an autocrat, what happens if Republicans push too far on an issue? Like, say, an effective 50-state ban on abortion from the moment of conception with no real exceptions, which is almost certainly coming despite Republican claims to the contrary. Well, when the court upholds this, or implements it, it becomes highly likely that blue state governments tell the court, and the administration, to go f— yourself.
In the end, the court appears to be doing everything to destroy itself, democracy, and the union, with its own arrogance and lack of foresight. It’s either castrated itself, and in the process doomed the country, or signed its own death warrant.
I don’t understand why every query to SCOTUS is about Trump. Did anyone ask if it would be acceptable for Biden to assassinate his political rivals if he felt they were a threat to democracy? Or anyone else? Did anyone question why this decision isn’t being made immediately?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor should have asked trumps lawyer if President Biden ordered the arrest and execution of conservative justices on the court because he doesn’t believe they would follow and obey the constitution would that be an official act?
Can we fathom the absolute disaster if every president from here on out assumes they’re immune to litigation?! This ain’t no monarchy folks!
It’s days like this in American history that we can learn much from the French Revolution.
The founders did not suffer from a lack of ideas. As such they were a quarrelsome lot. However, if there is one thing around which they could find an accord, it was that one person, when entrusted with power, not be above the reach of accountability by the people. “Of the people, by the people…”. I think they were pretty clear about that.
The current supreme court ruling members (I describe it that way because this court’s majority has demonstrated themselves to be incapable of objectivity) have indicated that they will undermine the very principle of our founding: self determination. They would suggest there can never be accountability under law for anyone capable of being elected to the office of president. That is fascism.
Just saying if they want to the american people can get rid of 6 feeble geriatrics in black robes it just takes the moral strength to do it.
I guess Bidens needs to trigger the Pelican Brief protocol.
And you get an RV, and you get an RV and you get an RV x 2
Reform of the Supreme Court should be an election issue.
Admittedly I didn’t watch the hearing but it seems like none of the ‘Justices’ asked any follow-up questions to Shitler’s lawyer.
Like, if some of these ridiculous scenarios ‘could be’ an official act ‘depending on the circumstances’ why didn’t any of them ask this lawyer what circumstances those would be?
This is grounds for revolt and we ain’t gonna do shit. Love it
Biden should order the CIA to go into the court and haul trumps lawyer away in a sack. Claim he’s a traitor and just hold him for a day, then release him. See how he feels about presidential immunity then.
Who knew the conservative justices really wanted President Biden to be above the law. /s
I feel like this court belongs in the 1800s. Like seriously wtf regressing as a society.
Ok so if Joe Biden ordered the disappearing of every registered Republican – would that be legal now?
Get rid of the supreme court
So, they basically just made official what was already the case. Nixon is the only president that was ever held responsible for his actions and even then he held himself responsible. He probably could have gotten out of it if he had pressed the issue.
If you are uncomfortable that means you are just uncomfortable with no longer being able to ignore the truth.
I’m sort of hoping Democrats win the Senate and Biden expands the court to include all adult citizens with de minimus salaries and left this new court to develop their own rules (e.g. to distribute the cases remotely, educate jurists, etc.).
The part about senators fearing their own assassination during an impeachment hearing is eye-opening. This is the end of democracy. SCOTUS is literally handing power to an ex president that committed crimes as a private citizen. Do not be surprised if Trump loses the next election and SCOTUS installs him. Fascists.
when did we fall into the worst timeline?
Well, fuck.
In any sane country the court would have sent this ass of a defense attorney home crying like a little girl instead of humoring him.
Te last person on Earth you want to give the right to act with impunity is Donald Trump. This is a man with no moral grounding.
Fair enough. Biden, Democracy is clearly under attack. Organize the military and protect America.
I’d start with the 5 in that room, and then move to Mr. Trump himself. Then stroll down to Congress.
Why is everyone talking about this as if the Supreme Court has already ruled on this?
Pack. The. Fucking. Court.
Can real life stop being so scary for once? Jesus.
I really fear the trajectory the US is taking.. i think about it often. I registered as D in the previous election in a not so friendly Red state. Now I fear the extremists are going to get a list of us and try to find and hunt us down. Let alone this entire topic where the sitting President can have someone murdered. Jesus fucking christ this timeline.
Can we impeach these justices yet?
Saw the movie Civil War tonight and it’s too real
Trump complains that Biden is breaking the law via election interference while his lawyer argues Biden could have Trump legally assassinated. We live in horrible times.
THESE are same assholes who demanded the US government increase their protection. WTF?
Fuck SCOTUS. Regardless of what they do with this horseshit immunity case, on November 5, 2024, the people will vote. And we WILL have our retribution.
Canada needs to build a wall and Mexico should hope the US finish’s its wall soon
I am still horrified that this is even being entertained. I thought the craven bad faith couldn’t get worse . ..
And so we go.
Honestly, I didn’t expect to see the death of the United States in my lifetime. And yet, here we are, a dead nation walking.
I’ve been in the fence, but if anyone wants to keep the democratic republic, we have to pack the court. No way around it.
Americans please vote like your depends on it because unfortunately I think it’s true.
Supreme court suggests Biden have Trump killed along with a few Supreme Court justices!!!!
By the conservative’s logic, every Nazi EXCEPT Hitler was guilty of the holocaust.
Well they’ve made their bed. When we beat back the fascists next year (and we will, we must) this court will have to answer for its role in Trump’s rise.
43 comments
This week, the Supreme Court managed to fail to meet the already extremely low expectations most sane people already had for it. First, during the Idaho EMTALA case on whether hospitals receiving federal funding can refuse to provide abortions to women who are actively dying as a result of a pregnancy, we heard debate over which, and how many, organs a woman had to lose before an abortion becomes legally acceptable. By all appearances, it looks as though the court is going to gut the already laughably weak “life of the mother” protections by a 5-4 vote.
It followed up this abysmal performance with hearing the Trump immunity case the next day, and the comportment of the same five male, conservative justices was even worse. When Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Donald Trump’s lawyer, “If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person, and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?”, he replied, “It would depend on the hypothetical, but we can see that would well be an official act.”
Based on that one line of questioning, Trump’s argument should be going down in flames 9-0. A democracy cannot survive when its supreme leader can arbitrarily decide that it’s in the nation’s best interest to rub out his opponents, and then leave it to some future court to decide whether it was an official act, because he’ll get away with it as long as there aren’t 67 votes in the Senate to impeach. And given that it will have been established that the president can put out a contract on political foes, how many senators are going to vote to impeach?
But the justices did not laugh this argument out of court. Quite the contrary: At least five of the justices seemed to buy into the Trump team’s arguments that the power of the office of the president must be protected from malicious and politicized litigation. They were uninterested in the actual case at hand or its consequences. Elie Mystal, justice correspondent at The Nation, perhaps captured my response to the Supreme Court’s arguments best: “I am in shock that a lawyer stood in the U.S. Supreme Court and said that a president could assassinate his political opponent and it would be immune as ‘an official act.’ I am in despair that several Justices seemed to think this answer made perfect sense.”
At a minimum, it appears the court will send all of the federal cases back down to lower courts to reconsider whether Trump’s crimes were “official acts.” It’s also likely that their new definition of “official acts” is likely to be far broader than anyone should be comfortable with, or at least broad enough to give Trump a pass. This delay all but guarantees that Trump will not stand trial for anything besides the current hush-money case before the 2024 election.
This is catastrophic in so many ways. The first is that it increases the already high chances that the United States ends up with a dictator who will attempt to rapidly disassemble democracy in pursuit of becoming President for Life. It simultaneously increases the chances that yes, he will go ahead and violate the civil and human rights of political opponents and classes of people he calls Communists, Marxists, and fascists. People forget that the first German concentration camp (Dachau) was built in 1933 to hold members of the Communist and Social Democratic Parties, and Trump has made it clear that he’s building enough camps to process a minimum of 11 million people (migrants, at least for starters).
The conservatives on the Supreme Court have also exposed their hubris, willful ignorance, and foolishness to the entire world in stark terms, and it will cost them and the nation dearly in the long run. They somehow presume that if Trump is elected and goes full dictator, that the power of the court, and their reputation, will save them. The truth is, Trump’s relationships with everyone he meets are completely transactional. If the court ever stops being useful to him, he will terminate it with prejudice if he thinks he can get away with it, and this court is doing everything it can to make him think he can get away with it.
These justices’ foolishness lies in their lack of foresight as to what happens if Trump wins in 2024. In the justice’s efforts to ensure that they are the most powerful branch of government, they are about to make it the weakest. They are creating a win-win situation for Trump, and a lose-lose for themselves. When Trump is president again, he is likely to believe that he has the option of “removing” any member of the Supreme Court who defies him. As long as the court doesn’t rule against him, they’re fine. From the justices’ perspective, they either end up neutered lap dogs of a despot, who do whatever they’re told out of fear, or they defy him and end up somewhere … unpleasant (at best). Taking a dirt nap at worst. After all, if Trump can rub out a political opponent, can’t he do the same to an uncooperative jurist?
The Roberts Court surely believes that Trump would never stoop to this—that the sanctity of court and the laws and norms of our democracy will protect them. Anyone who has spent 10 minutes studying how democracies collapse knows this is idiotic, but it stems from the justices’ own hubristic belief that the court is so powerful and respected that it is immune to everything. They believe the respect for the institution will ensure their power endures.
Except, what happens when neither Democrats nor Republicans have any respect for the courts? If Republicans see the court as neutered pets who can be put down the first time they bite, or ignored like a chihuahua straining against a leash, what real power does it posses? Much like Stalin asked, “How many divisions does the Pope have?”, Trump and Republicans will be fully cognizant that the court controls nothing once every federal agency has been packed with loyalists.
If Democrats nearly universally see the court as a corrupt rubber stamp for an autocrat, what happens if Republicans push too far on an issue? Like, say, an effective 50-state ban on abortion from the moment of conception with no real exceptions, which is almost certainly coming despite Republican claims to the contrary. Well, when the court upholds this, or implements it, it becomes highly likely that blue state governments tell the court, and the administration, to go f— yourself.
In the end, the court appears to be doing everything to destroy itself, democracy, and the union, with its own arrogance and lack of foresight. It’s either castrated itself, and in the process doomed the country, or signed its own death warrant.
http://archive.today/DFtXd
That’s a bummer. Might fuck this whole thing up.
I don’t understand why every query to SCOTUS is about Trump. Did anyone ask if it would be acceptable for Biden to assassinate his political rivals if he felt they were a threat to democracy? Or anyone else? Did anyone question why this decision isn’t being made immediately?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor should have asked trumps lawyer if President Biden ordered the arrest and execution of conservative justices on the court because he doesn’t believe they would follow and obey the constitution would that be an official act?
Can we fathom the absolute disaster if every president from here on out assumes they’re immune to litigation?! This ain’t no monarchy folks!
It’s days like this in American history that we can learn much from the French Revolution.
The founders did not suffer from a lack of ideas. As such they were a quarrelsome lot. However, if there is one thing around which they could find an accord, it was that one person, when entrusted with power, not be above the reach of accountability by the people. “Of the people, by the people…”. I think they were pretty clear about that.
The current supreme court ruling members (I describe it that way because this court’s majority has demonstrated themselves to be incapable of objectivity) have indicated that they will undermine the very principle of our founding: self determination. They would suggest there can never be accountability under law for anyone capable of being elected to the office of president. That is fascism.
Just saying if they want to the american people can get rid of 6 feeble geriatrics in black robes it just takes the moral strength to do it.
I guess Bidens needs to trigger the Pelican Brief protocol.
And you get an RV, and you get an RV and you get an RV x 2
Reform of the Supreme Court should be an election issue.
Admittedly I didn’t watch the hearing but it seems like none of the ‘Justices’ asked any follow-up questions to Shitler’s lawyer.
Like, if some of these ridiculous scenarios ‘could be’ an official act ‘depending on the circumstances’ why didn’t any of them ask this lawyer what circumstances those would be?
This is grounds for revolt and we ain’t gonna do shit. Love it
Biden should order the CIA to go into the court and haul trumps lawyer away in a sack. Claim he’s a traitor and just hold him for a day, then release him. See how he feels about presidential immunity then.
Who knew the conservative justices really wanted President Biden to be above the law. /s
I feel like this court belongs in the 1800s. Like seriously wtf regressing as a society.
Ok so if Joe Biden ordered the disappearing of every registered Republican – would that be legal now?
Get rid of the supreme court
So, they basically just made official what was already the case. Nixon is the only president that was ever held responsible for his actions and even then he held himself responsible. He probably could have gotten out of it if he had pressed the issue.
If you are uncomfortable that means you are just uncomfortable with no longer being able to ignore the truth.
I’m sort of hoping Democrats win the Senate and Biden expands the court to include all adult citizens with de minimus salaries and left this new court to develop their own rules (e.g. to distribute the cases remotely, educate jurists, etc.).
The part about senators fearing their own assassination during an impeachment hearing is eye-opening. This is the end of democracy. SCOTUS is literally handing power to an ex president that committed crimes as a private citizen. Do not be surprised if Trump loses the next election and SCOTUS installs him. Fascists.
when did we fall into the worst timeline?
Well, fuck.
In any sane country the court would have sent this ass of a defense attorney home crying like a little girl instead of humoring him.
Te last person on Earth you want to give the right to act with impunity is Donald Trump. This is a man with no moral grounding.
Fair enough. Biden, Democracy is clearly under attack. Organize the military and protect America.
I’d start with the 5 in that room, and then move to Mr. Trump himself. Then stroll down to Congress.
Why is everyone talking about this as if the Supreme Court has already ruled on this?
Pack. The. Fucking. Court.
Can real life stop being so scary for once? Jesus.
I really fear the trajectory the US is taking.. i think about it often. I registered as D in the previous election in a not so friendly Red state. Now I fear the extremists are going to get a list of us and try to find and hunt us down. Let alone this entire topic where the sitting President can have someone murdered. Jesus fucking christ this timeline.
Can we impeach these justices yet?
Saw the movie Civil War tonight and it’s too real
Trump complains that Biden is breaking the law via election interference while his lawyer argues Biden could have Trump legally assassinated. We live in horrible times.
THESE are same assholes who demanded the US government increase their protection. WTF?
Fuck SCOTUS. Regardless of what they do with this horseshit immunity case, on November 5, 2024, the people will vote. And we WILL have our retribution.
Canada needs to build a wall and Mexico should hope the US finish’s its wall soon
I am still horrified that this is even being entertained. I thought the craven bad faith couldn’t get worse . ..
And so we go.
Honestly, I didn’t expect to see the death of the United States in my lifetime. And yet, here we are, a dead nation walking.
I’ve been in the fence, but if anyone wants to keep the democratic republic, we have to pack the court. No way around it.
Americans please vote like your depends on it because unfortunately I think it’s true.
Supreme court suggests Biden have Trump killed along with a few Supreme Court justices!!!!
By the conservative’s logic, every Nazi EXCEPT Hitler was guilty of the holocaust.
Well they’ve made their bed. When we beat back the fascists next year (and we will, we must) this court will have to answer for its role in Trump’s rise.