Russian imperialism shapes public support for the war against Ukraine
by IWasWearingEyeliner
19 comments
> In the West, it has become common to explain this pro-war sentiment by arguing that Russians have been brainwashed by the Kremlin-controlled state media. Some commentators also mention widespread Russian apathy and disengagement from politics. However, these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own. > > Most Western observers struggle to perceive Russian support for the war as a conscious choice because they are unable to accept that supporting a genocidal war could ever be seen as rational. Nevertheless, studies of past wars of aggression and authoritarianism tell us that the protagonists of evil typically regard their actions as both reasonable and justifiable. In Russia’s case, it is the country’s imperial past and the imperial intimacy of the Russian relationship with Ukraine that serve to justify the current war. > > … > > While it is convenient to blame today’s war on Vladimir Putin and view it as the product of one man’s criminal fantasies, the problem of Russian imperialism is far bigger than Putin alone. Many millions of ordinary Russians support the war because they continue to view Ukraine through the distorting prism of imperial intimacy.
It truly is disheartening to see that still so many in the West don’t understand how deeply imperialistic the Russian nation is…
Why don’t the local Poles move to Poland? They can easily get polish citizenship I assume. Why live in that shithole?
[removed]
No, “public support for war” shaped not so much Russian imperialism. But lack of full-fledged sanctions from the West and absence of any sanctions from the East and South.
That show that because of Political Realism and RealPolitik sociopaths of 1960-2020s, colonial totalitarian imperialism is no longer a reason to stop trade.
So, at least by economic reason, Imperialism is back. Now in form of WMD-blackmail and “WMD-Might make Right/True” logic.
Relatively to how Russia uses occupied population, prisoners, migrants, and overall Russian “human resource” for meat assaults, quite likely soon there will be a return not only of imperialism, but also and slavery.
russia see how west is weak and perceive this like their invincibility
Like the freedom fries in the USA, propaganda is very successful, and it is no way a specific of Russia
“these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own”
But it is true, attitude of Russians changes depending on whatever media tell them (i.e. who is in charge). In 1990s their relationships with West and neighbours were much better.
Not in my country apparently despite they shot down our plane.
>After all, for more than seventy years since the end of World War II, Russians had joined their fellow Europeans in proclaiming “never again.”
Nitpicking here since I generally agree with the article, but only very old people are still using “Лишь бы не было войны”/”As long as there is no war” in Russia.
For the rest it’s been at least 15-20 years of “Можем повторить”/”We can repeat it”.
The funniest thing about the Russians’ attitude, in my opinion, is that they consider themselves benefactors of all nations around them. They seriously think and write in serious press and books how generous Russia pulled other peoples out of the Stone Age or liberated them as soon as they got into trouble due to their own stupidity. Imagine if the British were absolutely convinced that today’s India owes everything to them and that the complaints of the Indian nation about the period of colonialism are simply the whims of ungrateful brats.
I am Polish and I often read how they “liberated” us from the Nazi occupation. Of course, they do not mention the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact or that the subsequent 45+ years were those of another occupation and colonial economic exploitation.
Russia wants to take over Europe piece by peace, then britain and using EU technology whey will overthrow China and then the US. Unless we support Ukraine.
As a Russian, I’m declaring to you, if I was in charge of my country, I’d give y’all some lands. I wouldn’t need that much. They are empty anyway, and you need a lot of budget to develop those empty lands. Inefficient. The only people who want to conquer and “take back” your countries are old “babushkas” and one very scared balding “dedushka”.
The force of muscovite propaganda is amazing, how you convince a people living in an underdeveloped shithole believing they have the best country in the world. I bet it makes it easier when most of the people are so piss poor they can’t afford vacationing anywhere but Turkey and Egypt which are even worse.
Interesting to see that the article has Russians in the first place in the list of ethnicities negatively affected by the empire:
> The situation is unlikely to change until a majority of Russians recognize that true patriotism means acknowledging past injustices bestowed by empire on Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Lithuanians, Chechens, and many others.
This is a very unpopular opinion in this sub, so it’s surprising to see the article upvoted.
“The only way I can defend my borders is by expanding them” some Russian, probably.
Russian here.
I hate to say this, but this article is a BS, lying piece of propaganda, cherry-picking the data to manipulate the audience into thinking that it’s imperialism -> public support for the war, and not starting the war -> running mass propaganda about Ukranian Nais -> war support and imperialis . Let’s look at it in detail:
>When the bombs first began falling on Kyiv in February 2022, I thought the Russian people would immediately recognize the senselessness of it all and rise up to stop the war
This shows the complete lack of understanding of wars by the author. naming at least one country where people “rose to stop the war” when it invaded someone. US – Vietnam? US – Iraq? Germany – Poland? USSR – Poland? US – Afghanistan? Gaza – Israel? Argentina – Falklands? Sure, you will get some people protesting (such as in Russia as well). Mass protests? Good luck with that
>A small wave of protests did briefly erupt in the immediate aftermath of the full-scale invasion
>the Levada Center, has identified overwhelming support in its monthly surveys
First, it’s very interesting how the article ignores the data from the very same source showing that 51% of the respondents want to have peace talks, instead of continuing the war.
Or [ignoring other sources](https://www.euronews.com/2023/12/02/russians-support-of-ukraine-war-collapses-finds-poll): The Moscow-based research group asked 1,199 adults across Russia a series of questions in a phone poll between 17 and 22 October. It found the number of core war supporters – those who express “consistent” approval of the war and want the invasion to continue until it has achieved its goals – fell from 22% in February 2023 to 12% in October. Chronicles’ survey revealed that 40% of Russians support the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine without war aims being achieved. This number has remained consistent throughout 2023.
>Anecdotal evidence, including the pro-war opinions expressed by large numbers of Russians in private conversations with their Ukrainian relatives since the beginning of the war, has further strengthened perceptions of widespread Russian public support.
If it’s anecdotal evidence – why even mention in in the article? Apart from inflating the issue of Russian imperialism, of couse
> However, these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own
Which, ironically, is the truth. Russian society is very automatized (meaning people mostly care about themselves and their nearest circle) – no little thanks to the government that continuously destroys any horizontal social structures in the society, and represses anyone showing any agency.
>Most Western observers struggle to perceive Russian support for the war as a conscious choice because they are unable to accept that supporting a genocidal war could ever be seen as rational
So we take a society, censor all independent media, show 24/7 propaganda about “Nazis” out there, destroy all political parties apart from the main one, introduce prison time for calling a war a war – oh look, people are rationally and of the will are supporting the war! Who could have thought. Jokes aside, the article again twists cause and effect, as the author is unable to distinguish between them
>This imperial intimacy reflects deeply rooted historical ideas of kinship and fraternity that have encouraged generations of Russians to view Ukrainians as part of their nation. It is a hierarchical intimacy, with Ukrainians cast in the role of “little brothers” in need of protection and tutelage. This encompasses the necessity of “disciplining” Ukrainians for their own good. Such thinking is a central pillar of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “Russian World” ideology.
> >Over the past twenty months of full-scale warfare, denial of Ukrainian statehood and talk of imperial revival have become prominent features of Russia’s heavily censored and carefully choreographed information space. Ukrainians are routinely dehumanized and Ukraine itself is dismissed as an intolerable “anti-Russia.” Meanwhile, pundits on Russian state TV regularly discuss the need to exile or annihilate large numbers of Ukrainians. This genocidal rhetoric is typically framed as the inevitable price of achieving historical justice and saving Ukrainians from themselves.
So, we are showing 24/7 censored propaganda about Nazis in Ukraine, censored and carefully choreographed information space – oh look, imperialism is on the rise! Must definitely be deep-rooted though. The number of times the article cannot distinguish cause and effect is pretty mind-blowing.
>While it is convenient to blame today’s war on Vladimir Putin and view it as the product of one man’s criminal fantasies, the problem of Russian imperialism is far bigger than Putin alone. Many millions of ordinary Russians support the war because they continue to view Ukraine through the distorting prism of imperial intimacy.
That is another stupid sentence because Vladimir Putin did single-handedly start the war with his own decision. And millions of Russians support the war, thinking of the Ukrainian Nazis, and “liberating” them from the West. Hmm, I wonder what is causing it? ~~Mass TV propaganda and censorship~~ must be deep-rooted imerialism.
The EU, USA, UK, and allies should immediately accept all lgbtq russians as refugees for asylum, thereby ending their misery
“Russian imperialism”
[Says nothing about expanding the North Atlantic Treaty to the freaking BLACK SEA]
19 comments
> In the West, it has become common to explain this pro-war sentiment by arguing that Russians have been brainwashed by the Kremlin-controlled state media. Some commentators also mention widespread Russian apathy and disengagement from politics. However, these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own.
>
> Most Western observers struggle to perceive Russian support for the war as a conscious choice because they are unable to accept that supporting a genocidal war could ever be seen as rational. Nevertheless, studies of past wars of aggression and authoritarianism tell us that the protagonists of evil typically regard their actions as both reasonable and justifiable. In Russia’s case, it is the country’s imperial past and the imperial intimacy of the Russian relationship with Ukraine that serve to justify the current war.
>
> …
>
> While it is convenient to blame today’s war on Vladimir Putin and view it as the product of one man’s criminal fantasies, the problem of Russian imperialism is far bigger than Putin alone. Many millions of ordinary Russians support the war because they continue to view Ukraine through the distorting prism of imperial intimacy.
It truly is disheartening to see that still so many in the West don’t understand how deeply imperialistic the Russian nation is…
Why don’t the local Poles move to Poland? They can easily get polish citizenship I assume. Why live in that shithole?
[removed]
No, “public support for war” shaped not so much Russian imperialism. But lack of full-fledged sanctions from the West and absence of any sanctions from the East and South.
That show that because of Political Realism and RealPolitik sociopaths of 1960-2020s, colonial totalitarian imperialism is no longer a reason to stop trade.
So, at least by economic reason, Imperialism is back. Now in form of WMD-blackmail and “WMD-Might make Right/True” logic.
Relatively to how Russia uses occupied population, prisoners, migrants, and overall Russian “human resource” for meat assaults, quite likely soon there will be a return not only of imperialism, but also and slavery.
russia see how west is weak and perceive this like their invincibility
Like the freedom fries in the USA, propaganda is very successful, and it is no way a specific of Russia
“these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own”
But it is true, attitude of Russians changes depending on whatever media tell them (i.e. who is in charge). In 1990s their relationships with West and neighbours were much better.
Not in my country apparently despite they shot down our plane.
>After all, for more than seventy years since the end of World War II, Russians had joined their fellow Europeans in proclaiming “never again.”
Nitpicking here since I generally agree with the article, but only very old people are still using “Лишь бы не было войны”/”As long as there is no war” in Russia.
For the rest it’s been at least 15-20 years of “Можем повторить”/”We can repeat it”.
The funniest thing about the Russians’ attitude, in my opinion, is that they consider themselves benefactors of all nations around them. They seriously think and write in serious press and books how generous Russia pulled other peoples out of the Stone Age or liberated them as soon as they got into trouble due to their own stupidity. Imagine if the British were absolutely convinced that today’s India owes everything to them and that the complaints of the Indian nation about the period of colonialism are simply the whims of ungrateful brats.
I am Polish and I often read how they “liberated” us from the Nazi occupation. Of course, they do not mention the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact or that the subsequent 45+ years were those of another occupation and colonial economic exploitation.
Russia wants to take over Europe piece by peace, then britain and using EU technology whey will overthrow China and then the US. Unless we support Ukraine.
As a Russian, I’m declaring to you, if I was in charge of my country, I’d give y’all some lands. I wouldn’t need that much. They are empty anyway, and you need a lot of budget to develop those empty lands. Inefficient. The only people who want to conquer and “take back” your countries are old “babushkas” and one very scared balding “dedushka”.
The force of muscovite propaganda is amazing, how you convince a people living in an underdeveloped shithole believing they have the best country in the world. I bet it makes it easier when most of the people are so piss poor they can’t afford vacationing anywhere but Turkey and Egypt which are even worse.
Interesting to see that the article has Russians in the first place in the list of ethnicities negatively affected by the empire:
> The situation is unlikely to change until a majority of Russians recognize that true patriotism means acknowledging past injustices bestowed by empire on Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Lithuanians, Chechens, and many others.
This is a very unpopular opinion in this sub, so it’s surprising to see the article upvoted.
“The only way I can defend my borders is by expanding them” some Russian, probably.
Russian here.
I hate to say this, but this article is a BS, lying piece of propaganda, cherry-picking the data to manipulate the audience into thinking that it’s imperialism -> public support for the war, and not starting the war -> running mass propaganda about Ukranian Nais -> war support and imperialis . Let’s look at it in detail:
>When the bombs first began falling on Kyiv in February 2022, I thought the Russian people would immediately recognize the senselessness of it all and rise up to stop the war
This shows the complete lack of understanding of wars by the author. naming at least one country where people “rose to stop the war” when it invaded someone. US – Vietnam? US – Iraq? Germany – Poland? USSR – Poland? US – Afghanistan? Gaza – Israel? Argentina – Falklands? Sure, you will get some people protesting (such as in Russia as well). Mass protests? Good luck with that
>A small wave of protests did briefly erupt in the immediate aftermath of the full-scale invasion
Very small, only [15,000 people](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60749064) detained in a single month.
>the Levada Center, has identified overwhelming support in its monthly surveys
First, it’s very interesting how the article ignores the data from the very same source showing that 51% of the respondents want to have peace talks, instead of continuing the war.
Or [ignoring other sources](https://www.euronews.com/2023/12/02/russians-support-of-ukraine-war-collapses-finds-poll):
The Moscow-based research group asked 1,199 adults across Russia a series of questions in a phone poll between 17 and 22 October.
It found the number of core war supporters – those who express “consistent” approval of the war and want the invasion to continue until it has achieved its goals – fell from 22% in February 2023 to 12% in October.
Chronicles’ survey revealed that 40% of Russians support the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine without war aims being achieved. This number has remained consistent throughout 2023.
>Anecdotal evidence, including the pro-war opinions expressed by large numbers of Russians in private conversations with their Ukrainian relatives since the beginning of the war, has further strengthened perceptions of widespread Russian public support.
If it’s anecdotal evidence – why even mention in in the article? Apart from inflating the issue of Russian imperialism, of couse
> However, these explanations risk infantilizing Russian society and stereotyping Russians as passive conformists with no agency of their own
Which, ironically, is the truth. Russian society is very automatized (meaning people mostly care about themselves and their nearest circle) – no little thanks to the government that continuously destroys any horizontal social structures in the society, and represses anyone showing any agency.
>Most Western observers struggle to perceive Russian support for the war as a conscious choice because they are unable to accept that supporting a genocidal war could ever be seen as rational
So we take a society, censor all independent media, show 24/7 propaganda about “Nazis” out there, destroy all political parties apart from the main one, introduce prison time for calling a war a war – oh look, people are rationally and of the will are supporting the war! Who could have thought.
Jokes aside, the article again twists cause and effect, as the author is unable to distinguish between them
>This imperial intimacy reflects deeply rooted historical ideas of kinship and fraternity that have encouraged generations of Russians to view Ukrainians as part of their nation. It is a hierarchical intimacy, with Ukrainians cast in the role of “little brothers” in need of protection and tutelage. This encompasses the necessity of “disciplining” Ukrainians for their own good. Such thinking is a central pillar of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “Russian World” ideology.
>
>Over the past twenty months of full-scale warfare, denial of Ukrainian statehood and talk of imperial revival have become prominent features of Russia’s heavily censored and carefully choreographed information space. Ukrainians are routinely dehumanized and Ukraine itself is dismissed as an intolerable “anti-Russia.” Meanwhile, pundits on Russian state TV regularly discuss the need to exile or annihilate large numbers of Ukrainians. This genocidal rhetoric is typically framed as the inevitable price of achieving historical justice and saving Ukrainians from themselves.
So, we are showing 24/7 censored propaganda about Nazis in Ukraine, censored and carefully choreographed information space – oh look, imperialism is on the rise! Must definitely be deep-rooted though. The number of times the article cannot distinguish cause and effect is pretty mind-blowing.
>While it is convenient to blame today’s war on Vladimir Putin and view it as the product of one man’s criminal fantasies, the problem of Russian imperialism is far bigger than Putin alone. Many millions of ordinary Russians support the war because they continue to view Ukraine through the distorting prism of imperial intimacy.
That is another stupid sentence because Vladimir Putin did single-handedly start the war with his own decision.
And millions of Russians support the war, thinking of the Ukrainian Nazis, and “liberating” them from the West. Hmm, I wonder what is causing it? ~~Mass TV propaganda and censorship~~ must be deep-rooted imerialism.
The EU, USA, UK, and allies should immediately accept all lgbtq russians as refugees for asylum, thereby ending their misery
“Russian imperialism”
[Says nothing about expanding the North Atlantic Treaty to the freaking BLACK SEA]